<h1>Officials: Past 12 months warmest ever for U.S. </h1>
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<div class="cnnByline">By the <strong>CNN Wire Staff</strong></div>
<div class="cnn_strytmstmp">updated 2:34 PM EDT, Mon July 9, 2012</div>
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<img src="http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120705084651-heat-0705-01-horizontal-gallery.jpg" alt="Ten-year-old Lilly Hwang-Geddes, left, of Ithaca, New York, plays in a fountain at the Yards Park on Thursday, July 5, in Washington. A record heat wave has been in the area for more than a week." id="articleGalleryPhoto001" style="margin:0 auto;" border="0" height="360" width="640">
<cite style id="galleryCaption001">Ten-year-old Lilly Hwang-Geddes,
left, of Ithaca, New York, plays in a fountain at the Yards Park on
Thursday, July 5, in Washington. A record heat wave has been in the area
for more than a week.</cite>
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<div class="cnn_html_media_title_new" id="gallerySlideTitle001">Extreme heat strikes U.S.</div>
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<div><strong>STORY HIGHLIGHTS</strong></div>
<ul class="cnn_bulletbin cnnStryHghLght"><li><b>NEW:</b> Number of outages falls to just under 100,000 in 11 states, Washington</li><li>The first half of 2012 has also set temperature records, NOAA says</li><li>Temperatures are falling across the nation, but storms are possible</li>
<li>Heat advisories are issued for portions of California and Arizona</li></ul>
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<p><strong>(CNN)</strong> -- The mainland United States, which was
largely recovering Monday from a near-nationwide heat wave, has
experienced the warmest 12-month period since record-keeping began in
1895, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said Monday.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph2">High temperatures during
June also contributed to a record-warm first half of the year, the
agency said in its monthly analysis. The heat during the last half of
June broke or tied 170 all-time high temperature records in cities
across the lower 48 states.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph3">"Temperatures in South
Carolina (113 degrees) and Georgia (112 degrees) are currently under
review by the U.S. State Climate Extremes Committee as possible all-time
statewide temperature records," NOAA said.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph4">The average temperature
for the mainland in June was 71.2 degrees -- two degrees above the
20th-century average and the 14th warmest June on record.</p>
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<img style="cursor: pointer;" src="http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120703094351-sot-maginnis-us-high-temps-storms-00000420-story-body.jpg" alt="" class="box-image" border="0" height="120" width="214"><cite class="expCaption"><span>How long will high temps last?</span></cite>
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<img style="cursor: pointer;" src="http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120708012111-exp-heatwave-beginning-to-break-00002001-story-body.jpg" alt="" class="box-image" border="0" height="120" width="214"><cite class="expCaption"><span>Heat wave beginning to break</span></cite>
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<img style="cursor: pointer;" src="http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120707115440-sylvester-heat-surge-00011222-story-body.jpg" alt="" class="box-image" border="0" height="120" width="214"><cite class="expCaption"><span>Heat Wave: Triple digits </span></cite>
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<img style="cursor: pointer;" src="http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120703062020-vo-heat-buckled-highway-launches-car-00000225-story-body.jpg" alt="" class="box-image" border="0" height="120" width="214"><cite class="expCaption"><span>Watch SUV go airborne on buckled road</span></cite>
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<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph5">The state of Colorado,
which saw several large wildfires, had its warmest June ever, NOAA said.
The warmest-ever June experienced nationwide was in 1933.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph6">The heat wave, which
stretched across much of the nation for more than a week, was largely
history Monday, but the break in the heat could mean severe storms in
some areas, forecasters said.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph7">A cold front was working
its way through the Mid-Atlantic states, dropping high temperatures into
the 80s in cities including Chicago, New York, Boston and Washington.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph8">The heat wave that
roasted much of the country for more than a week left scores dead and
millions without power at one point -- many of them following a round of
severe storms that swept through the Mid-Atlantic states on June 29.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph9">The nation's capital set
another record Sunday with a high of 102 degrees -- the city's 11th
straight day of temperatures over 95.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph10">Other high temperatures
Sunday included 105 in Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina, which tied an
all-time record; 103 in Richmond, Virginia; 101 in Charlotte, North
Carolina; and 100 in Baltimore.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph11">Nationwide, there have
been more than 4,500 daily record highs in the past 30 days, according
to the National Climatic Data Center.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph12">However, the forecast
high for Washington on Monday was 86. Other forecast highs were 87 in
Baltimore, 90 in Richmond and 90 in St. Louis.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph13">Portions of North and
South Carolina will be the last to escape the heat, as a heat advisory
remained in place for some locations Monday. Monday's forecast high for
Raleigh was 97 with a heat index as high as 104; Tuesday's forecast
predicts a high of 87 degrees.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph14"><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/02/health/heat-medical-conditions-tips/index.html">Triple-digit strategies for staying healthy</a></p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph15">But the cold front
brings a chance of severe weather, particularly across the eastern
Carolinas and southeastern Virginia, CNN meteorologist Sarah Dillingham
said. More than 160 wind reports were received nationwide as the front
worked its way eastward, she said.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph16">Damaging winds were the
main threat of Monday's storms, she said. A "slight risk" area included
the cities of Norfolk and Roanoke, Virginia, along with Raleigh,
Charlotte and Wilmington, North Carolina.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph17">On Sunday, damaging
winds struck Fredericksburg, Virginia, and collapsed a building,
injuring two people, according to the National Weather Service's Storm
Prediction Center. The storms have complicated restoration efforts in
some spots and caused even more damage. One person died Saturday in
storms in Cuba, Missouri, the prediction center said.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph18">"It has been a tough few
weeks for many Virginians," Gov. Bob McDonnell said late Sunday. "They
have suffered from record-breaking temperatures and an historic storm
that brought widespread damage and power outages. Now, many have lost
power again. I ask Virginians to remain patient and to continue to help
each other get through this latest storm."</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph19">Just under 100,000
customers in 11 states and metropolitan Washington were without power as
of Monday. Some have lacked electricity for more than a week after the
June 29 storms.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph20">More than 72,000 of
those customers were in West Virginia, the hardest-hit state. Because
utility companies typically define each residential and business account
as a customer, the actual number of people affected was higher.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph21"><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/06/us/west-virginia-storm-aftermath/index.html">West Virginians brace for storms, aftermath</a></p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph22">Outages in metropolitan Washington, however, had dropped to 316 Monday morning.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph23">More hot weather may be
on the way, forecasters warned. The National Weather Service issued
excessive heat warnings for parts of Arizona and California starting
Monday, predicting temperatures in the range from 110 to 115 degrees.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph24">"The combination of hot
afternoon temperatures and very warm overnight lows will result in
oppressive conditions," the weather service said.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph25"><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/06/travel/heat-road-conditions/index.html">Use caution if you drive in extreme heat</a></p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph26">High temperatures Monday
were expected to reach 102 in Redding, California; 98 in Sacramento,
California; 104 in Fresno, California; 100 in Salt Lake City; 115 in
Yuma, Arizona; and 113 in Phoenix.</p>
<p class="cnn_storypgraphtxt cnn_storypgraph27">The Pacific Northwest,
however, experienced cooler than average temperatures in June, according
to the NOAA. Cooler conditions were also present in the Southeast,
despite record-breaking heat in late June.</p>
<p class="cnn_strycbftrtxt">CNN's Devon Sayers and Dave Alsup contributed to this report.</p>
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<h4><a href="http://newspulse.cnn.com/">NewsPulse</a></h4><br></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Tom Hansen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank">thansen@moscow.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Well, well, well, Mr. Rumelhart -</div><div><br></div><div>I watched both of my parents die (my mom on September 26, 2005 - my dad on October 4, 2009). They both died at home, as a matter of preference, within a couple weeks of being discharged from the hospital. It was a medical doctor that provided me and my sister guidance in making my mother's last days as comfortable as possible, to include administering morphine to relieve her pain.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I even helped "bag" my father for transport by the Neptune Society, while under the guidance of a nurse.</div><div><br></div><div>At the end of 2011/beginning of 2012 my wife spent five weeks in the ICU of Sacred Heart Medical Center in Spokane, the first week concerned about potential heart failure, the next four weeks concerned about brain damage, while she was under 24/7 monitoring by two medical doctors and a team of critical care nurses. She survived . . . no brain damage . . . due in no small part to a handful of MDs and a staff of RNs. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Appreciation doesn't begin to relate what I attempt to express in weekly letters to Drs. Howard and Harder, and the critical care nurses of Sacred Heart's ICU 2 South. I will be indebted to them for every breath my wife takes.</div>
<div><br></div><div>THANK GOD for MDs and RNs.</div><div><br></div><div>Now, if you'll excuse me, I must go to Hodgins to pick up prescription refills.</div><div class="im"><div> </div><div><div>Seeya round town, Moscow.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Tom Hansen</div><div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"If not us, who?</div><div>If not now, when?"</div><div><br></div><div>- Unknown</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div>
<div class="h5"><div><br>On Jul 9, 2012, at 11:46, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">
<div><span>Go fuck yourself. Yes, I do happen to remember times when my mother was on the verge of dying very clearly. There were quite a lot of them. I think it's amazing that you would assume I'm misremembering because no medical professional would ever defer to a patient's spouse on treatment. Clearly it does happen, because I saw it happen. I remember the nurses consulting with my dad on it, and I remember them deferring to him when he was with her, which was usually as close to 24x7 as he could arrange. I wasn't a babe in a basket, I was out of college for many of them.<br>
</span></div><div><br><span></span></div><div><span>I'm not telling you I dropped an apple and it floated up to the fucking ceiling. I'm telling you that a trained professional recognized my dad's expertise in this
matter and acted accordingly.</span></div><div><br><span></span></div><div><span>Jesus jumping Christ on a pogo stick.<br></span></div><div><br><span></span></div><div><span>Paul<br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Donovan Arnold <<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>; Joe Campbell <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> "<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 9, 2012 11:00 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020]
Institute for Public Accuracy: "Media Miss the Forest for the Burning Trees"<br> </font> </div> <br><div><div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:tahoma,new york,times,serif"><div><span>Paul, <var></var>I'm sure that is the way you remember it. </span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span></span><span>Donovan J. Arnold</span></div>
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<div style="FONT-FAMILY:tahoma,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;LINE-HEIGHT:0;MARGIN:5px 0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;min-height:0px;FONT-SIZE:0px;BORDER-TOP:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-TOP:0px">
</div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> Donovan Arnold <<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>>; Joe Campbell <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Cc:</span></b> "<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 9, 2012 9:19 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Institute for Public Accuracy: "Media Miss the Forest for the Burning Trees"<br>
</font></div><br>
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<div><span>I saw it first hand, Donovan. There might be a nice sliding scale for insulin somewhere, but we got really good at determining what amounts of insulin to input to the machine. You had to take into account how much activity she had had and how much she was expected to have, what her general condition was (fatigued, fighting an infection, whatever), what she ate and what the timing of it was, what her current blood sugar is and what it was earlier, and probably other things I have forgotten. We tried to let the medical staff make the choices, but that caused blood sugars outside the acceptable ranges at times. So they determined that my dad knew more about it than they did and deferred to him.</span></div>
<div><br><span></span></div>
<div><span>I was there, sir, I saw it for myself. I'm not lying to you. I'm not making it up. I remember it as if it were yesterday.<br></span></div>
<div><br><span></span></div>
<div><span>Paul<br></span></div>
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</div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> Donovan Arnold <<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>; Joe Campbell <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Cc:</span></b> "<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 9, 2012 12:44 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Institute for Public Accuracy: "Media Miss the Forest for the Burning Trees"<br>
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<div>As a <span><span>CNA</span></span>, I find that story hard to believe. The amount of <span><span>insulin</span></span> given is not a guessing game. The number of units given are by a doctor's prescription and a sliding scale based on their blood glucose reading. Any medical staff that doesn't give that amount or observes that amount given is subject to a lawsuit and loss of their <span>licens</span><var></var>e or certification, regardless of what a spouse or patient insists upon giving or getting. </div>
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<div>Doctors may be wrong about the facts, they may not have all the information or disbelieve a patients <span><span>testimony</span></span>, but they know a great deal more of what to do based on the facts. That is why they have a license to practice medicine. </div>
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<div>Also, when you second guess your doctor, you can do a great deal of harm to yourself. </div>
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<div>Donovan J. Arnold</div>
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</div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> Joe Campbell <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Cc:</span></b> "<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 9, 2012 12:42 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Institute for Public Accuracy: "Media Miss the Forest for the Burning Trees"<br>
</font></div><br>"If your doctor tells you something, and 90% of the other doctors say <br>the same thing, yet Paul tells you
something different, whom do you <br>believe? Paul? Because medicine is uncertain?"<br><br>Wouldn't that depend greatly on exactly why I claim that the doctors are <br>wrong? While you will go on believing your doctor is infallible, maybe <br>
Roger will actually evaluate what I have to say and bring it up with his <br>doctor next time he sees him or her?<br><br>Always assuming the experts know best can be dangerous, too.<br><br>Case in point: my mom was a Type I diabetic (she completely lost the <br>
ability to make insulin at age 17) and was in the hospital often for <br>diabetes-related problems. There were plenty of times where if my dad <br>hadn't been watching closely, the medical staff might have done <br>something dangerous. Usually having to do with how much insulin to give <br>
her via her insulin pump. Too little, and she can go unconscious and <br>die, too much can cause a sordid list of problems from organ damage
to <br><span><span>neuropathy</span></span>. It made sense, my dad was used to working with my mom to <br>estimate how much of a basal rate was needed and how much to give as an <br>extra amount to counteract what she just ate (her "bolus" amount). The <br>
doctors and nurses that worked with my mom regularly learned to defer to <br>my dad's judgment on her insulin dosages. I became pretty good at it, <br>too. Blind trust in medical authority might have killed my mother long <br>
before she actually died. Diabetes is a horrible disease.<br><br>Perhaps that's where I learned to be skeptical of even expert opinion.<br><br>Paul<br><br>On 07/08/2012 11:05 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>> <span><span>Ok</span></span> Roger. You owe me $100. Don't be too hard on me. After all, I'm just a
skeptic. Whether you owe it to me is subject to debate, at least according to me. If you're a critical thinker, you'll pay up. So pay up.<br>><br>> These arguments don't work on debt, and there is no reason to think they work on the environment either. What matters is the evidence. My point is, in most cases non-scientists are not in a position to say. I won't care what Paul says about this issue until he publishes a paper on the topic in a peer-reviewed journal. You can believe what you wish.<br>
><br>> If your doctor tells you something, and 90% of the other doctors say the same thing, yet Paul tells you something different, whom do you believe? Paul? Because medicine is uncertain?<br>><br>> Nonsense. You trust the doctors because they are the experts. What makes climate science different?<br>
><br>> Joe<br>><br>> On Jul 8, 2012, at 9:36 PM, <span><span>lfalen</span></span> <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" target="_blank">lfalen@turbonet.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>>> You guys are being too hard on Paul. While there is climate change, the full effects and causes are subject to debate and critical review. You tout critical thinking. That is all Paul is doing. To blandly accept every thing that is put out by Climate Scientists is not engaging in critical thinking.<br>
>> Roger<br>>> -----Original message-----<br>>> From: Joe Campbell <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>
>> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 17:49:43 -0700<br>>> To: Paul Rumelhart <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
>> Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Institute for Public Accuracy: "Media Miss the Forest for the Burning Trees"<br>>><br>>>> I'm not criticizing criticism and debate. I'm criticizing you; we're debating. I'll respond to the longer post later. Joe<br>
>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> On Jul 8, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>>>>> Does "validly express <span><span>one's</span></span> positions on the findings of science" equate to "conform to the scientific consensus"? Is there no room for criticism and debate?<br>
>>>><br>>>>> Paul<br>>>>><br>>>>> On 07/08/2012 11:10 AM, Sam <span><span>Scripter</span></span> wrote:<br>>>>>> Good post, Joe!<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> I appreciate the "pains"/time/effort you take to carefully, fully explain your points about how to validly express <span><span>one's</span></span> position on the findings of science.<br>
>>>>><br>>>>>> Thank you!<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Sam S<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> -------- Original message --------<br>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Institute for Public Accuracy: "Media Miss the Forest for the Burning Trees"<br>>>>>> From: Joe Campbell <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>> To: Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>><br>>>>>> CC: Moscow Vision 2020 <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Two other points worth making.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> First, you would come off as something other than a spokesman for a<br>>>>>> radical, ill-informed, politically motivated position if your<br>
>>>>> criticisms went both ways. You like to point out "flaws" in climate<br>>>>>> science. But are there no flaws in the
arguments of their detractors?<br>>>>>> No
fallacies, no prejudices, no false reports, no political<br>>>>>> motivations? Doubtful.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Second, in your initial post, at the bottom of this one, you list<br>
>>>>> several complaints about the political motivations lurking behind<br>>>>>> climate science. But this makes it seem as if climate science is<br>>>>>> somehow separated from the rest of science and the academy and nothing<br>
>>>>> can be further from the truth.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> At <span><span>WSU</span></span>, climate scientists work within the School of Earth and<br>>>>>> Environmental Sciences (SEES), which is made up of scientists from a<br>
>>>>> multitude of disciplines such as geology,
geochemistry, ecology,<br>>>>>>
hydrology, microbiology, and marine biology. Were you to poll these<br>>>>>> folks -- indeed, were you to poll scientists in general -- you'd find<br>>>>>> that there is an overwhelming consensus among them about the impact of<br>
>>>>> human behavior on global warming. Thus, if we are to believe your<br>>>>>> reports of bias among climate scientists, the conspiracy would be more<br>>>>>> widespread than you suggest, involving not just climate scientists but<br>
>>>>> the entire scientific community, perhaps all of the academy. In the<br>>>>>> end, we're left with a fairytale conspiracy theory that is<br>>>>>> preposterous and unbelievable.<br>
>>>>><br>>>>>> Just to note one example, you constantly complain about problems with<br>>>>>> computer models when making large-scale claims about
global climate<br>>>>>> change but did you know that these models are used in other areas of<br>>>>>> science as well? A quick scan of some of the research interests of<br>>>>>> members of SEES makes the point. One professor's "research uses<br>
>>>>> computer simulation models to help us understand the recent problems<br>>>>>> in the electric power industry." Another "combines field measurements<br>>>>>> with theoretical models and computer simulations to shed light on<br>
>>>>> natural water flows, mixing, and sediment transport." This is research<br>>>>>> that is funded by competitive national grants and provides information<br>>>>>> that is actually used to solve real-world problems. Why not<br>
>>>>> investigate whether or not your worries about computer models apply to<br>>>>>> these
areas of research as well? The flip-side is, don't you think<br>>>>>> that these scientists would all be standing up on their soapboxes<br>>>>>> deriding the claims of climate scientists if their work were as biased<br>
>>>>> and fallacious as you contend that it is? Don't you think they'd want<br>>>>>> to separate their research from the disreputable research of climate<br>>>>>> scientists if that work were as questionable as you contend? Again, if<br>
>>>>> we are to believe any of your claims, the political conspiracy would<br>>>>>> be very wide, so wide as to involve the whole of the academy.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> As the Director of the School of Politics, Philosophy, and Public<br>
>>>>> Affairs, I have a keen interest in the connections between science,<br>>>>>> ethics, and policy: How can we
take the information that science<br>>>>>> provides and apply it to the real world in a way that is beneficial to<br>>>>>> humanity and the universe in general? Last year we started a series of<br>
>>>>> lectures in an attempt to help the general public better understand<br>>>>>> complex issues like global warming, bringing together experts from a<br>>>>>> variety of fields for public forums at least once a semester. Last<br>
>>>>> spring we brought in Andrew Light, a Senior Fellow at the Center for<br>>>>>> American Progress, and formed a panel discussion with representatives<br>>>>>> from biochemistry, sociology, and philosophy to provide information on<br>
>>>>> this very topic. After brief presentations from the panelists, there<br>>>>>> was a Q&A where folks were allowed to ask questions and voice
concerns<br>>>>>> about these matters. I advertised this on Vision 2020. This is not the<br>>>>>> behavior of people who have an agenda that they want to trick you into<br>>>>>> believing.<br>
>>>>><br>>>>>> This year we promise to have more events. I'm in the process of<br>>>>>> organizing a conference on <span><span>neurophilosophy</span></span>, investigating the impact<br>
>>>>> of neuroscience on such areas as ethics and the law, and we're also<br>>>>>> inviting Allen Buchanan, James B. Duke Professor of Philosophy at Duke<br>>>>>> University, who will likely give a talk on bioethics. I'll continue to<br>
>>>>> advertise these events on Vision 2020 and I encourage you and
others<br>>>>>> to attend. In general, I
encourage you, Paul, to seek out local<br>>>>>> presentations by climate scientists -- I've helped organize at least 3<br>>>>>> such events over the last 3 years -- and to ask questions directly to<br>
>>>>> the scientists themselves and see if they might be able to respond to<br>>>>>> your concerns. In other words, instead of voicing your concerns to a<br>>>>>> group with no expertise that is unable to evaluate the merits of your<br>
>>>>> claims, take them to the climate scientists themselves and see what<br>>>>>> they say. And do it in a public venue. That way, folks would be able<br>>>>>> to here both sides of the issue and make a more informed decision.<br>
>>>>><br>>>>>> Best, Joe<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>> Can I assume you have credentials in climate science? Because, otherwise,<br>>>>>>> you are being hypocritical in calling me out for "degrading" the<br>>>>>>> conversation because of my lack of the same.<br>
>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Perhaps I'm missing some fundamental knowledge of how arguments work.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Paul<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> ________________________________<br>
>>>>>> From: Ted <span><span>Moffett</span></span> <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com" target="_blank">starbliss@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>>> To: Joe Campbell <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br>>>>>>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2012 2:03 PM<br>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Institute for Public Accuracy: "Media Miss the<br>>>>>>> Forest for the Burning Trees"<br>
>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Thanks for these comments phrased in a manner so easy to understand, coming<br>>>>>>> from someone who could write at a level that would be obtuse for many.. I'm<br>
>>>>>> reminded of the writing
style of philosopher Bertrand Russell<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> When in a dialog someone of a significant level of education and<br>>>>>>> intelligence repeatedly refuses to admit when it is pointed out that they<br>
>>>>>> have engaged in significant omissions, errors and misrepresentations<br>>>>>>> regarding a critical scientific field, and promotes what can be easily<br>>>>>>> determined by most anyone doing cursory research of scientific peer review,<br>
>>>>>> to be junk science, as though we are supposed to take it seriously, this<br>>>>>>> implies a factual and/or argumentative filter at work, for whatever reason<br>>>>>>> or reasons. Call it a indication of an "agenda," or who knows what it is!<br>
>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Maybe there is still some social value
to such a degraded dialog, but it<br>>>>>>> ceases to offer significant credible factual or augmentative input of<br>>>>>>> interest for someone who reaches a certain level of competency in exploring<br>
>>>>>> the scientific field involved.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> On the issue of complexity as an argument for a high degree of skepticism<br>>>>>>> about the claims of a given field of knowledge, the human brain/mind is<br>
>>>>>> claimed by some to be the most complex object in the known universe,<br>>>>>>> therefore we should engage in a high degree of skepticism about any claims<br>>>>>>> by anyone about any ones state of "mind," whether scientific claims or other<br>
>>>>>> sorts. It amazes me that people make such simple and easy <span><span>judgements</span></span> about<br>>>>>>> each others state of mind, given that such propositions to be credible<br>
>>>>>> should only be made by those with <span><span>PhDs</span></span> in a psychology or perhaps<br>>>>>>> neurobiology related field, and even these <span><span>judgements</span></span> it can be argued are<br>
>>>>>> very open to question, assuming a vast complexity is underpinning each<br>>>>>>> humans state of mind.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Consider this dialog with <span><span>neuroscientist</span></span> Michael <span><span>Gazzaniga</span></span>:<br>
>>>>>><br>>>>>>> ALAN <span><span>ALDA</span></span> INTERVIEWS MICHAEL <span><span>GAZZANIGA</span></span><br>>>>>>> Featured on "The Man with Two Brains,"<br>
>>>>>> from the SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN FRONTIERS special "Pieces of Mind."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.longwood.k12.ny.us/lhs/science/mos/mind/algazzin.htm" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.longwood.k12.ny.us/lhs/science/mos/mind/algazzin.htm" target="_blank">http://www.longwood.k12.ny.us/lhs/science/mos/mind/algazzin.htm</a><br>
>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Alan <span><span>Alda</span></span>:<br>>>>>>> I have to say - and from talking to you I think you feel this way, too -<br>>>>>>> consciousness is a terrific thing to have. It feels good to have<br>
>>>>>> consciousness. When you lose consciousness and when you sense you're going<br>>>>>>> to lose consciousness, it doesn't feel good. You get a little nervous about<br>>>>>>> that. But what do you suppose is the reason we have consciousness? Why has<br>
>>>>>> it persisted? What good is it in terms of the survival of the
species?<br>>>>>>> Michael <span><span>Gazzaniga</span></span>:<br>>>>>>> That's related to the $64,000 question. What's it for? If you want to<br>>>>>>> understand anything, you've got to know what it's for. And
it so permeates<br>>>>>>> every thought we have, you think, well, it's for keeping us motivated, to<br>>>>>>> have these thoughts, or whatever. But you start to put this stuff down on<br>
>>>>>> paper and it just doesn't look like you're saying much.<br>>>>>>> You know, there's a bunch of philosophers now who are saying, "A human<br>>>>>>> trying to understand consciousness is like a nematode trying to understand a<br>
>>>>>> dog." It's just too big a problem, and they kind of toss it out the window.<br>>>>>>> Well I don't think we should do that. Clearly, it's going to take a lot of<br>
>>>>>> major new thinking to really give us an insight, a handle on how we can<br>>>>>>> scientifically talk about this phenomenal awareness that we all experience.<br>>>>>>>
-------------------------------------------<br>>>>>>> Vision2020 Post: Ted <span><span>Moffett</span></span><br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Joe Campbell <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>>> wrote:<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> I'm making claims about your arguments and<br>>>>>>> when it comes to judgments about the strengths and weaknesses of<br>
>>>>>> arguments -- the area of logic and the broader area of epistemology --<br>>>>>>> there is NO ONE living on the <span><span>Palouse</span></span> who is more
qualified than I am<br>>>>>>> (although there are a few people who are as qualified).<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Paul,<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Thanks for helping me to make my case!<br>
>>>>>><br>>>>>>> The point is that you DON'T believe that smoking causes lung cancer on<br>>>>>>> the basis of scientific evidence that you understand and evaluate,<br>
>>>>>> because you are not a scientist. You believe it because it is "common<br>>>>>>> sense" (which is irrelevant, for it merely boils down to the fact that<br>>>>>>> it seems to you to be true) and because the experts tell you it is<br>
>>>>>> true. You still haven't shown a difference between the case of smoking<br>>>>>>> and human carbon consumption. Let's look more closely at some of
the<br>>>>>>> BAD arguments you give below for the supposed difference.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Two clarifications first. My point was that unless you are an actual<br>>>>>>> scientist, it is almost impossible to make judgments about scientific<br>
>>>>>> claims on evidence alone. In most cases, understanding the evidence<br>>>>>>> would require a high level of expertise. This is why scientific<br>>>>>>> beliefs should be based on testimony, the testimony of experts in the<br>
>>>>>> field. My general claim was that there is NO basis to dismiss one set<br>>>>>>> of scientists (climate scientists, say) yet not dismiss others as<br>>>>>>> well. In my previous post, I happened to mention scientists who<br>
>>>>>> specialize in lung cancer research but below I mention
others since<br>>>>>>> they are helpful in showing flaws in your reasoning.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Also, you might wonder how I'm qualified to speak about such matters,<br>
>>>>>> given that I'm not a climate scientist either. But I'm not making any<br>>>>>>> claims about the climate. I just trust what the climate scientists<br>>>>>>> tell me for reasons given. I'm making claims about your arguments and<br>
>>>>>> when it comes to judgments about the strengths and weaknesses of<br>>>>>>> arguments -- the area of logic and the broader area of epistemology --<br>>>>>>> there is NO ONE living on the <span><span>Palouse</span></span> who is more qualified than I am<br>
>>>>>>
(although there are a few people who
are as qualified).<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> The points in (1) are irrelevant and were addressed above. In the<br>>>>>>> 1950s smoking seemed to be a healthy activity and was promoted as<br>
>>>>>> such. Common sense turned out to be wrong. Common sense is never a<br>>>>>>> reason for holding scientific beliefs.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> <span><span>Wrt</span></span> (2), I'd be willing to bet that there are climate scientists<br>
>>>>>> working on these very questions. In any event, I'm not sure what<br>>>>>>> evidence you have to say otherwise. I tend to leave it to scientists<br>>>>>>> to determine what kinds of studies they should or shouldn't be<br>
>>>>>>
concerned with in order to support
their claims. Since you are not a<br>>>>>>> scientist, these points are meaningless.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> For point (3), it is true that the climate is complex. But the<br>
>>>>>> universe is even MORE complex. To the extent that this gives you a<br>>>>>>> reason to dismiss climate science it should give you EVEN MORE reason<br>>>>>>> to dismiss all of physics for both the micro-level of the universe and<br>
>>>>>> the macro-level of the universe are FAR MORE complex than the earth's<br>>>>>>> climate. This is just a general skeptical argument that applies to<br>>>>>>> almost ANY area of science. Why accept it <span><span>wrt</span></span> climate science but
not,<br>>>>>>> say, cosmology? Why believe
anything that Stephen Hawking says, for<br>>>>>>> instance? Do you know how much MORE complicated the whole <span><span>frickin</span></span>'<br>>>>>>> universe is when compared with the earth's climate? This is an absurd,<br>
>>>>>> BAD, and irresponsible argument.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> I've responded to arguments like those in (4) and (5) before but it<br>>>>>>> hasn't seemed to sink in yet. Whether or not a scientist has an agenda<br>
>>>>>> is IRRELEVANT. What matters is the EVIDENCE he or she has in support<br>>>>>>> of the claims made. Suppose you find out that 99% of scientists who<br>>>>>>> study the links between smoking and lung cancer went into the
field<br>>>>>>> for emotional and irrational
reasons -- suppose, say, that members of<br>>>>>>> their family died of lung cancer. That would be irrelevant and<br>>>>>>> shouldn't cause you to dismiss their findings. ALL that is relevant is<br>
>>>>>> the epistemological quality of the evidence, which can be judged in<br>>>>>>> objective ways.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> If your argument were sound, it should give people reason to dismiss<br>
>>>>>> EVERYTHING you say because you clearly have an agenda. You can't tell<br>>>>>>> me that your concern with the issue of global warming is independent<br>>>>>>> of your political views or your personal habits, that it is solely<br>
>>>>>> motivated by the desire for objective truth and nothing more. This<br>>>>>>> very argument undermines everything you say on Vision 2020
since all<br>>>>>>> of it is in keeping with your own political viewpoints, or "agenda."<br>>>>>>> But people shouldn't dismiss your views merely because you happen to<br>
>>>>>> be interested in politics. They should judge your views on the basis<br>>>>>>> of the evidence you provide in support of the claims that you make.<br>>>>>>> They shouldn't make sweeping generalizations about your claims either;<br>
>>>>>> they should evaluate each argument individually.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> If your argument were sound, we should dismiss ALL sciences related to<br>>>>>>> human heath, since they are all motivated by the subjective desire to<br>
>>>>>> help human beings extend their lives and improve the quality of their<br>>>>>>> lives. Likely anyone working in the area of
cancer research is<br>>>>>>> motivated in part by the selfish desire to become THE person that<br>>>>>>> finds the cure for cancer. That is irrelevant. This is another general<br>>>>>>> skeptical argument that (if sound) should cause you to dismiss much<br>
>>>>>> more than climate science.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> ALL scientific claims should be judged by the merits of the evidence<br>>>>>>> given. Personal facts about the scientists are ALWAYS IRRELEVANT.<br>
>>>>>> People tend to choose their vocations for personal reasons, not<br>>>>>>> because of a desire to seek objective truth. Scientists are no<br>>>>>>> different in this regard.<br>
>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Best, Joe<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at
7:16 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>>>>>>>> On 07/03/2012 05:42 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>> So, Paul, why believe that smoking causes lung disease if you don't<br>>>>>>>>> believe that human carbon consumption has an impact on global warming?<br>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Joe<br>>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> First, I'm not saying that carbon consumption is not having an impact on<br>>>>>>>> global warming. I'm saying that the size of the impacts compared to the<br>
>>>>>>> more-or-less unknown natural factors is unknown and that the <span><span>feedbacks</span></span><br>>>>>>>> from<br>>>>>>>> warming in general are unknown, among other things.<br>
>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> There are plenty of reasons, both scientific and not, that make me<br>>>>>>>> skeptical<br>>>>>>>> of global warming. Although everyone will assume I'm just grasping at<br>
>>>>>>> straws because of my deep-seated urge to deny everything (probably has to<br>>>>>>>> do<br>>>>>>>> with my relationship with my mother), I humbly present a smattering of<br>
>>>>>>> them<br>>>>>>>> for your enjoyment:<br>>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> 1. On the face of it, the idea is extraordinary. Humans, even with
our<br>>>>>>>> vaunted
civilization, are small potatoes compared to the forces of nature.<br>>>>>>>> The only reason our carbon footprint even makes a dent compared to natural<br>>>>>>>> forces has to do with the small amount of CO2 in our atmosphere. We've<br>
>>>>>>> had<br>>>>>>>> far less of an impact on the water cycle, for example, or with oxygen<br>>>>>>>> levels. Not saying that it isn't possible, but there is automatically a<br>
>>>>>>> bar<br>>>>>>>> that has to be gotten over which smoking causing lung disease doesn't<br>>>>>>>> have.<br>>>>>>>> It should be common sense that inhaling smoke multiple times a day for<br>
>>>>>>> years<br>>>>>>>> can have a deleterious effect on the lungs, even without bringing
in<br>>>>>>>> carcinogens.<br>>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> 2. There are some obvious questions that aren't being answered because of<br>>>>>>>> the focus on human impacts. For example, what caused the earth to heat up<br>
>>>>>>> immediately following the Little Ice Age? If we do not know, how can we<br>>>>>>>> say<br>>>>>>>> with any confidence that human-induced climate change is to blame instead<br>
>>>>>>> of<br>>>>>>>> the same natural processes still at work? What causes an ice age to<br>>>>>>>> start,<br>>>>>>>> and what brings us out of one?<br>
>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> 3. The climate is complex, with multiple <span><span>feedbacks</span></span> of unknown strength<br>>>>>>>> and<br>>>>>>>> unknown <span><span>feedbacks</span></span> of unknown strength. The sign of the combination of<br>
>>>>>>> <span><span>feedbacks</span></span> isn't even known. Climate models cannot be that accurate, given<br>>>>>>>> the above, yet they are seen as gospel. Even when they make different<br>
>>>>>>> assumptions and model things different ways. As long as they project a<br>>>>>>>> warmer future, they are added to the model average and
used as proof that<br>>>>>>>> global warming will kill babies and cause frogs to
rain from the sky.<br>>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> I imagine that the mechanisms for lung disease from tobacco are relatively<br>>>>>>>> straight forward.<br>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> 4. Some of the major players in the spotlight on the side of global<br>>>>>>>> warming<br>>>>>>>> are environmental activists with an agenda, as opposed to being objective<br>
>>>>>>> scientists just following the data. For example, Timothy <span><span>Wirth</span></span> (Senator<br>>>>>>>> from Colorado and leader of the negotiating team for the Kyoto treaty)<br>
>>>>>>> held<br>>>>>>>> a hearing on global warming at the capital. He
called the Weather
Bureau<br>>>>>>>> to<br>>>>>>>> find out what day of the year was usually the hottest in DC, and scheduled<br>>>>>>>> the hearing for that date. His team then went in the night before the<br>
>>>>>>> hearing and opened all the windows in the room in which the hearing was to<br>>>>>>>> be held, causing the air conditioning to fail to keep up with the heat>> >> All<br>
>>>>>>> so that it could be hot and muggy when James Hansen gave his spiel about<br>>>>>>>> the<br>>>>>>>> dangers of global warming.<br>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> (<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/interviews/wirth.html" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/interviews/wirth.html" target="_blank">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/interviews/wirth.html</a>)<br>
>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> The anti-tobacco campaigns, with all their sheer propaganda, do seem to be<br>>>>>>>> run by political activists, but that may be coincidental.<br>
>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> 5. Major climate scientists also appear to have political agendas.<br>>>>>>>> Michael<br>>>>>>>> Mann and his "hockey stick" come to mind, trying to erase the Medieval<br>
>>>>>>> Warm<br>>>>>>>> Period and the Little Ice Age, using dubious statistics, all so they could<br>>>>>>>> show that current warming was "unprecedented". All this from a few<br>
>>>>>>> <span><span>bristlecone</span></span> pine trees.<br>>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> I haven't heard of any of these kinds of shenanigans from scientists<br>>>>>>>> studying the link between tobacco use and lung diseases, probably because<br>
>>>>>>> the links were relatively straight forward. Not so much the case with<br>>>>>>>> global warming / global climate change / global climate disruption.<br>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> There are more, but that gives you the gist of it. But hey, it's just me<br>>>>>>>> being <span><span>contrarian</span></span>, right? So please, move
along. Nothing to see here.<br>>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>>
Paul<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> =======================================================<br>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
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>>>>>> <span><span>mailto</span></span>:<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>>>>>>
=======================================================<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>> =======================================================<br>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
>>>>> serving the communities of the <span><span>Palouse</span></span> since 1994.<br>>>>>> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net/</a><br>
>>>>> <span><span>mailto</span></span>:<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>>>>>
=======================================================<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> =======================================================<br>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
>>>>> serving the communities of the <span><span>Palouse</span></span> since 1994.<br>>>>>> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net/</a><br>
>>>>> <span><span>mailto</span></span>:<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>>>>>
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</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div class="h5"><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br>
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=======================================================<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br><a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br>
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