<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">"The point is you've got to give people some slack when it comes to religious beliefs because none of us know what<BR>the heck we're talking about. Not the theists, not the atheists; none of us."</SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">That is my point with the fallacy of atheism. It is just as <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-0><SPAN>erred</SPAN></SPAN> as any other human made up religion in that it leaves no room for error. It is <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-1><SPAN>declarative</SPAN></SPAN> without the ability to be proved false. If it cannot be proved false, it cannot be a logical argument.</SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Saying, "I'm not sure there is God.", is logical. Saying, "I believe there is a God.", is logical. Saying, There is no god.", is not logical. There is no way anyone can logically conclude there is no God, only that there probably isn't a God based upon the evidence presented and their ability to process that evidence. Same can be said for those that believe that there probably is a God, based on the evidence presented to them and their ability to process it. </SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">"But then some folks think that the lack of perfection in the world is a reason for supposing that God<BR>doesn't exist. After all, if he did exist, why the lack of perfection?"</SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Yet, the only things they point to being imperfect about the world involves humans. If God loves the World, then why did He put Humans on it? Clearly, He must love us more than the W<VAR id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR>orld itself. </div></SPAN>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Donovan J. Arnold</div></SPAN>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe@gmail.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Art Deco <art.deco.studios@gmail.com>; "vision2020@moscow.com" <vision2020@moscow.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, June 6, 2012 6:04 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Vision2020] Atheism to Defeat Religion By 2038?<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>"How can someone believe definitively something that cannot ever
be<BR>proved or disproved by its very definition?" Similar comments would<BR>seem to apply to the believe that God exists.<BR><BR>It seems to me that if you can have good reason for thinking that God<BR>exists, then you could have good reasons for thinking that he doesn't<BR>exist. Thus, were the world perfect that would constitute a reason for<BR>believing in a perfect creator. But then some folks think that the<BR>lack of perfection in the world is a reason for supposing that God<BR>doesn't exist. After all, if he did exist, why the lack of perfection?<BR><BR>I'm sure you have a story to tell. That's not the point, although<BR>feeling certain that something exists and being certain that it exists<BR>are two different things. The point is you've got to give people some<BR>slack when it comes to religious beliefs because none of us know what<BR>the heck we're talking about. Not the theists, not the atheists; none<BR>of us.<BR><BR><BR>On Wed, Jun 6, 2012
at 3:57 PM, Donovan Arnold<BR><<A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:<BR>> Atheism is completely illogical and will never overtake the belief in God.<BR>> Atheism is the belief that there is "No God". How can someone believe<BR>> definitively something that cannot ever be proved or disproved by its very<BR>> definition?<BR>><BR>> Doubt God? Yes, that makes sense to some who have never experienced him.<BR>> Doubt religion, yes, as many are anything but man made fabrications. Doubt<BR>> certain Gods exists, certainly. But to proclaim, with all certainly there is<BR>> no God, is to claim that you know everything, either makes you a God, or a<BR>> fool.<BR>><BR>> People that put their faith and security in human wisdom, material goods,<BR>> wealth, money, and things of the Earth are fools, for they can all be
taken,<BR>> and will be taken from them. People should put their faith in love,<BR>> understanding, and their belief in doing what is right by each other. Only<BR>> by loving others, caring for others, and doing for others will you ever know<BR>> God and be certain of His existence.<BR>><BR>> Donovan J. Arnold<BR>><BR>> From: Art Deco <<A href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A>><BR>> To: <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 4:08 PM<BR>> Subject: [Vision2020] Atheism to Defeat Religion By 2038?<BR>><BR>> Atheism to Defeat Religion By 2038<BR>><BR>> Posted: 06/05/2012 5:00 pm<BR>><BR>> Countries with the best standard of living are turning atheist. That shift<BR>> offers a glimpse into the world's future.<BR>>
Religious people are annoyed by claims that belief in God will go the way of<BR>> horse transportation, and for much the same reason, specifically an improved<BR>> standard of living.<BR>> The view that religious belief will give way to atheism is known as the<BR>> secularization thesis. The specific version that I favor (1) is known as the<BR>> existential security hypothesis. The basic idea is that as people become<BR>> more affluent, they are less worried about lacking for basic necessities, or<BR>> dying early from violence or disease. In other words they are secure in<BR>> their own existence. They do not feel the need to appeal to supernatural<BR>> entities to calm their fears and insecurities.<BR>> The notion that improving living conditions are associated with a decline in<BR>> religion is supported by a mountain of evidence (1,2,3).<BR>> That does not prevent some serious scholars, like political scientist
Eric<BR>> Kaufmann (4), from making the opposite case that religious fundamentalists<BR>> will outbreed the rest of us. Yet, noisy as they can be, such groups are<BR>> tiny minorities of the global population and they will become even more<BR>> marginalized as global prosperity increases and standards of living improve.<BR>> Moreover, as religious fundamentalists become economically integrated, young<BR>> women go to work and produce smaller families, as is currently happening for<BR>> Utah's Mormons.<BR>> The most obvious approach to estimating when the world will switch over to<BR>> being majority atheist is based on economic growth. This is logical because<BR>> economic development is the key factor responsible for secularization. In<BR>> deriving this estimate, I used the nine most godless countries as my<BR>> touchstone (excluding Estonia as a formerly communist country).<BR>> The countries were Belgium, Czech
Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, Japan,<BR>> Netherlands, Sweden and the United Kingdom. These nine countries averaged<BR>> out at the atheist transition in 2004 (5) with exactly half of the<BR>> populations disbelieving in God. Their gross domestic product (GDP) averaged<BR>> $29,822 compared to $10,855 for the average country in the world. How long<BR>> will it take before the world economy has expanded sufficiently that the GDP<BR>> of the average country has caught up to the average for the godless<BR>> countries in 2004?<BR>><BR>> Using the average global growth rate of GDP for the past 30 years of 3.33<BR>> percent (based on International Monetary Fund data from their website), the<BR>> atheist transition would occur in 2035.<BR>> Belief in God is not the only relevant measure of religion, of course. A<BR>> person might believe in God in a fairly superficial way without religion<BR>> affecting his or
her daily life. One way of assessing the depth of religious<BR>> commitment is to ask survey participants whether they think that religion is<BR>> important in their daily lives as the Gallup Organization has done in<BR>> worldwide nationally representative surveys.<BR>> If fewer than 50 percent of the population agreed that religion was<BR>> important to them, then the country has effectively crossed over to a<BR>> secular majority. The godless countries by religiosity were Spain, South<BR>> Korea, Canada, Switzerland, Uruguay, Germany and France. At a growth rate of<BR>> 3.33 percent per year it would be 2041 before the average country in the<BR>> world would be at an equivalent level of affluence as these godless nations.<BR>> If national wealth drives secularization, the global population will cross<BR>> an atheist threshold where the majority see religion as unimportant by 2041.<BR>> Averaging across the two
measures of atheism, the entire world population<BR>> would cross the atheist threshold by about 2038 (average of 2035 for<BR>> disbelief and 2041 for religiosity). Although 2038 may seem improbably fast,<BR>> this requires only a shift of approximately 1 percent per year whether in<BR>> religiosity or belief in God. Using the Human Development Index as a clock<BR>> suggests an even earlier arrival for the atheist transition (1).<BR>> Is the loss of religious belief something fear? Contrary to the claims of<BR>> religious leaders, Godless countries are highly moral nations with an<BR>> unusual level of social trust, economic equality, low crime and a high level<BR>> of civic engagement (5). We could do with some of that.<BR>> Sources<BR>> 1. Barber, N. (2012). Why atheism will replace religion: The triumph of<BR>> earthly pleasures over pie in the sky. E-book, available at:<BR>> <A
href="http://www.amazon.com/Atheism-Will-Replace-Religion-ebook/dp/B00886ZSJ6/" target=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/Atheism-Will-Replace-Religion-ebook/dp/B00886ZSJ6/</A><BR>> 2. Norris, P., & Inglehart, R. (2004). Sacred and secular: Religion and<BR>> politics worldwide. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.<BR>> 3. Barber, N. (2011). A Cross-National test of the uncertainty hypothesis of<BR>> religious belief Cross-Cultural Research, 45, 318-333.<BR>> 4. Kaufmann, E. (2010). Shall the religious inherit the earth? London:<BR>> Profile books.<BR>> 5. Zuckerman, P. (2008). Society without God: What the least religious<BR>> nations can tell us about contentment. New York: New York University Press.<BR>><BR>><BR>> --<BR>> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR>> <A href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A><BR>><BR>>
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