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When I suggest a carbon tax, I plead with people to go easy on it at
first. It's insurance because of the uncertainty in the feedbacks
of climate change - we're not yet at the "pack a backpack and start
hiking north" stage quite yet. If the carbon tax is relatively
small, it will mean a relatively small increase in the price of gas
and of electricity from coal-fired plants. Too much of an increase,
and we have people unable to afford gas to get to work so they can
afford the increase in their utilities.<br>
<br>
Start small, but reassess every few years. Reassess both the
science and the uncertainty. If there is still a lot of
uncertainty, increase it a bit. It's a hedge against the
possibility of the IPCC's worst scenario, not a Solution to the
Problem. <br>
<br>
Frankly, shutting off all coal-fired plants and ceasing the use of
oil will still leave us with decades of carbon in the atmosphere
that has to come out. We also have China and India and the rest of
the up-and-coming nations. Why do I want the tax, then? Because
there are lots of sensible reasons to get off of oil and coal.
Pollution, political conflict, mining accidents, etc.<br>
<br>
What we really need is nuclear ramped up. Fukushima was a
worst-case scenario.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 06/04/2012 03:10 PM, Ted Moffett wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJ-QB6VM-J86Wdj-acbkBmfDFecsY3bWWBpz31xzVAO6OgpYTA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>A carbon tax with tax shifting or other compensation, or a
fee and dividend system, would offer relief to consumers of low
and middle incomes for the increases in the cost of goods and
services. In fact, some economic projections show low and
middle income consumers coming out ahead financially, with a
carbon tax and tax shifting or other compensation, or fee and
dividend systems, to promote a quicker transition away from
fossil fuels. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>This of course would depend on their economic choices. If
someone used a lot of coal fired electricity and drove a gas
guzzler 100 miles a day to commute, they would see a large
increase in the cost of coal and oil energy associated with
their lifestyle. But for those who make choices to avoid
intensive fossil fuel associated economic decisions, the
reduction in their taxes or other compensation or the dividend
payments they would receive, could offer the chance to
economically benefit from the tax or fee on carbon.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Incredible that in this thread, Australia's plan, just now
being implemented, though in the works for a long time, to tax
carbon and compensate families for the increases in costs, was
not mentioned once... </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Below are sources of information on carbon tax and tax
shifting or other compensation, and fee and dividend systems. <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://Cleanenergyfuture.gov.au">Cleanenergyfuture.gov.au</a>
source below claims compensation of 120 percent of the expected
increases in costs from the carbon tax:</div>
<div><br>
Lowering Income Taxes While Raising Pollution Taxes Reaps Great
Returns </div>
<div class="planBAuthor">Lester R. Brown<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.earth-policy.org/book_bytes/2010/pb4ch10_ss2">http://www.earth-policy.org/book_bytes/2010/pb4ch10_ss2</a></div>
<div class="planBAuthor">-------------------------------</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">
<div class="bookTitle"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.earth-policy.org/books/pb3">Plan B 3.0:
Mobilizing to Save Civilization</a></div>
<div class="bookAuthor">
Lester R. Brown</div>
<div class="bookAuthor"><font>Chapter 13. The Great
Mobilization: Shifting Taxes and Subsidies</font></div>
</div>
<div class="planBAuthor"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.earth-policy.org/books/pb3/PB3ch13_ss2">http://www.earth-policy.org/books/pb3/PB3ch13_ss2</a></div>
<div class="planBAuthor">------------------------------</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">Info on Australia's "Clean Energy Future"
plan with a carbon tax:</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">
<div class="planBAuthor">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.cleanenergyfuture.gov.au/helping-households/who-will-get-assistance/">http://www.cleanenergyfuture.gov.au/helping-households/who-will-get-assistance/</a></div>
</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">Over 4 million households get assistance
worth 120 per cent of their expected average price impact</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">-----------------------------</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">Info below on a fee and dividend system
presented to the US Congress:</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">Carbon Tax and 100% Dividend vs. Tax and
Trade</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">Testimony of James E. Hansen<br>
Committee on Ways and Means</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">US House of Representatives</div>
<div class="planBAuthor"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.columbia.edu/%7Ejeh1/2009/WaysAndMeans_20090225.pdf">http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2009/WaysAndMeans_20090225.pdf</a></div>
<div class="planBAuthor"> </div>
<div class="planBAuthor">"...Tax and 100% Dividend--tax carbon
emissions, but give all of the money back to the public..."</div>
<div class="planBAuthor"> </div>
<div class="planBAuthor">
NASA climate scientist James Hansen, quoted above, has opposed
the cap and trade system that the Obama administration was
trying to pass the US Congress, that failed:</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">Cap and Fade</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">
By JAMES HANSEN</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">Published: December 6, 2009</div>
<div class="planBAuthor"> </div>
<div class="planBAuthor"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/opinion/07hansen.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/opinion/07hansen.html</a></div>
<div class="planBAuthor"> </div>
<div class="planBAuthor"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/opinion/07hansen.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/opinion/07hansen.html</a></div>
<div class="planBAuthor">---------------------------------------</div>
<div class="planBAuthor">Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett</div>
<br>
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