<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">How about staying home and minding our own business? <div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Wayne<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On May 30, 2012, at 8:08 AM, Donovan Arnold wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><span style="RIGHT: auto">Mr. Price,</span></div> <div style="RIGHT: auto"><span style="RIGHT: auto"></span> </div> <div style="RIGHT: auto"><span style="RIGHT: auto">What specific policy do you think the US should instigate that will result in <var id="yui-ie-cursor"></var>zero innocent <span style="RIGHT: auto" id="misspell-0"><span style="RIGHT: auto">casualties</span></span>, or less <span style="RIGHT: auto" id="misspell-1"><span>casualties</span></span> than we currently inflict, about 250 a year, according to Human Watch.</span></div> <div style="RIGHT: auto"><span style="RIGHT: auto"></span> </div> <div style="RIGHT: auto"><span style="RIGHT: auto">Donovan J. Arnold</span></div> <div><br></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class="hr" contenteditable="false" readonly="true"></div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> Wayne Price <<a href="mailto:bear@moscow.com">bear@moscow.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> Sunil Ramalingam <<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</span></b> vision 2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:50 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Beating dead horses<br></font></div><br> <div id="yiv395969366"> <div>Sunil, <div><br></div> <div>It's right next to the section that talks about it being OK to invade the sovereign territory of another country, either by sending in troops, or aircraft, or just bombing them, and because it's the United States, it's NOT an act of war!</div> <div><br></div> <div>It wasn't right when the Bush Administration did it, it's not right now, and it won't be right if a Romney Administration does it, God forbid! One of the big issues as I see it is that once you loose the moral high ground in the so called "War on Terrorism", you can't get it back, and we appear to have lost it years ago.</div> <div><br></div> <div><br></div> <div>Wayne</div> <div><br></div> <div><br></div> <div><br></div> <div><br> <div> <div>On May 30, 2012, at 6:03 AM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:</div><br class="yiv395969366Apple-interchange-newline"> <blockquote type="cite"><span style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class="yiv395969366Apple-style-span"> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" class="yiv395969366hmmessage"> <div dir="ltr">Chuck (or is it Chick?)<br><br>I'm looking for the section in the Constitution that says the President, on his own say so, can kill US citizens, without due process. Where is it?<br><br>Here's <span id="misspell-5" class="mark">Greenwald</span> on this issue, yesterday:<br><br><a href="http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/obama_the_warrior/singleton/">http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/obama_the_warrior/singleton/</a><br><br>Here's something to be proud of: "Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect <b>counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants</b>, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent." (From this other <span id="misspell-6" class="mark">Greenwald</span> article yesterday:<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/singleton/<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>)<br><br>Yep, if we killed them, they must have been militants, unless someone proves otherwise, after they're dead. Of course, when we send drones back to kill rescuers and mourners, it may be hard to prove the innocence of the murder victims. And we should believe the state, because <span id="misspell-7" class="mark">Obama's</span> president, right? If he says it, it must be true? How many Obama supporters took the same position when Bush was president?<br><br>How can we 'eliminate <span id="misspell-8" class="mark">al</span> <span id="misspell-9" class="mark">Quaeda</span>' when every time we blow up people, we help them recruit?<br><br>Sunil<br><br> <div> <div id="yiv395969366SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div> <div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class="hr" contenteditable="false" readonly="true"></div>Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 16:59:39 -0700<br>From:<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a><br>To:<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ckovis@turbonet.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:ckovis@turbonet.com">ckovis@turbonet.com</a><br>CC:<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Beating dead horses<br><br> <div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <div><span>Mr. <span id="misspell-11" class="mark">Kovis</span>,</span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span>It concerns me that you don't know the difference between an opinion<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-1"><span>piece</span></span><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>and an<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-2"><span>article<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span>strictly written with</span></div> <div class="yiv395969366ecxMsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">empirical<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>facts backed by several sources for accuracy. One is subjective, and the other is objective.</div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span>You can post 100s of opinion pieces by anti-war, anti-Obama, or anti-current US policy writers, it doesn't substantiate your claims that Obama is targeting innocent civilians.</span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span>"When he applies his<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-1" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-12" class="mark">lawyering</span></span><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>skills to<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-2" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-13" class="mark">counterterrorism</span></span>, it is usually to enable, not constrain, his ferocious campaign against Al<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-3" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-14" class="mark">Qaeda</span></span><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>-<font color="#ff0000"><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span></font><font color="#ff0000">even when it comes to killing an American cleric in Yemen, a decision that Mr. Obama told colleagues was "an easy one."</font></span></div> <div><span><font color="#ff0000"></font></span> </div> <div><span><font><font color="#000000">This is not the full truth, which makes it a lie.<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span></font><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="#000000">If you read the article which the opinion writer is<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-7"><span>referring</span></span><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>to</font></a><font color="#000000">, you would see that Obama has only targeted 15 Yemen with American ties, all plotting an attack on American soil. It doesn't matter if someone is a cleric from<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><font color="#0066cc"><font color="#000000"><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-4" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-15" class="mark">Mukalla</span></span>, Yemen</font>,<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><font color="#000000">or<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></font>Moscow, Russia, or Moscow, Idaho, if they are plotting to kill Americans in the United States or elsewhere, I say more power to the President to bring a drone plane down on their head.</font></font></span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span>It appears to me, you reject any policy the US has of eliminating Al<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-5" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-16" class="mark">Qaeda</span></span>, an organization that<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-10"><span>plotted</span></span>, funded, and executed 3,000 American civilians, including children, and would do it again given a chance.</span></div> <div><span><font color="#ff0000"></font></span> </div> <div><span><font color="#000000">Donovan J. Arnold</font></span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><br></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class="yiv395969366hr"></div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>Chuck <span id="misspell-17" class="mark">Kovis</span> <<a href="mailto:ckovis@turbonet.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:ckovis@turbonet.com">ckovis@turbonet.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>Donovan Arnold <<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</span></b><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>"<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:32 PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>Beating dead horses<br></font></div><br> <div id="yiv395969366ecxyiv916931653"> <div> <div class="yiv395969366ecxyiv916931653indent">From the New York Times via Reader Supported News:<br></div> <div class="yiv395969366ecxyiv916931653indent">"In interviews with The New York Times, three dozen of his current and former advisers described Mr.<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-7" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-18" class="mark">Obama's</span></span><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>evolution since taking on the role, without precedent in presidential history, of personally overseeing the shadow war with Al<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-8" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-19" class="mark">Qaeda</span></span>. They describe a paradoxical leader who shunned the legislative deal-making required to close the detention facility at<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-9" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-20" class="mark">Guantánamo</span></span><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bay in Cuba, but approves lethal action without hand-wringing. While he was adamant about narrowing the fight and improving relations with the Muslim world, he has followed the metastasizing enemy into new and dangerous lands. When he applies his<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-10" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-21" class="mark">lawyering</span></span><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>skills to<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-11" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-22" class="mark">counterterrorism</span></span>, it is usually to enable, not constrain, his ferocious campaign against Al<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-12" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-23" class="mark">Qaeda</span></span><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>-<font color="#ff0000"><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span></font><font color="#ff0000">even when it comes to killing an American cleric in Yemen, a decision that Mr. Obama told colleagues was "an easy one."<font color="#000000"> " (My emphasis)<br></font></font></div> <div class="yiv395969366ecxyiv916931653indent"><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#000000">I opposed Democrat Lyndon Johnson and the Vietnam War. I oppose Democrat Barack Obama and the Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Iran Wars. When you have a constitutional law professor saying that it is "an easy one" to kill a fellow U.S. citizen without what passes now days for "due process," don't expect me to go along with it. I find it disgusting that more people in this country don't have the guts to put a stop to this at the ballot box. As a country, we will never learn, when a former<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="yiv395969366ecxmisspell-13" class="yiv395969366mark"><span id="misspell-24" class="mark">SDS'er</span></span><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span>is an apologist for a President who says the decision to kill a fellow human being and fellow American citizen is easy. Chuck <span id="misspell-25" class="mark">Kovis</span><br></font></font></div> <div class="yiv395969366ecxyiv916931653indent"><font color="#ff0000"><br><font color="#000000"></font></font></div></div></div><br><br></div></div></div><br>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the <span id="misspell-26" class="mark">Palouse</span> since 1994.<span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><span class="yiv395969366Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>=======================================================</div></div>=======================================================<br>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>serving the communities of the <span id="misspell-27" class="mark">Palouse</span> since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================</div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><br>=======================================================<br>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>serving the communities of the <span id="misspell-28" class="mark">Palouse</span> since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> <span id="misspell-29" class="mark">mailto</span>:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<br><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>