<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Mr. Hansen,</SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">It would be ideal to have <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-0><SPAN>captured</SPAN></SPAN> Al-<SPAN id=misspell-0 class=mark>Awiaki</SPAN>, but smart bombs aren't that smart. How many US Troops are worth sacrificing to capture a known leader of a well organized and armed terrorist organization when we can just kill him with no loss of life on our side? I don't think we should ask troops to risk their lives unless it is <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-2><SPAN>absolutely</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-3><SPAN>necessary</SPAN></SPAN>. If Al-<SPAN id=misspell-1 class=mark>Awaki</SPAN> or any other active terrorist believes he is innocent and wants a fair trial, he can always surrender. Otherwise, he is going to going to have to bit the bullet, or drone, in this case. These kinds of people don't surrender<VAR id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR>. </SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Donovan J. Arnold</SPAN></div>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Moscow Cares <moscowcares@moscow.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> 'Sunil Ramalingam' <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> 'vision 2020' <vision2020@moscow.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:14 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Vision2020] Beating dead horses<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Concerning Al-<SPAN id=misspell-4 class=mark>Awlaki</SPAN>: I agree with you 1,000%. Al-<SPAN id=misspell-5 class=mark>Awlaki</SPAN> should have been captured and held for trial by a United Nations tribunal. That would have been the moral thing to do.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Concerning who is/<SPAN id=misspell-6 class=mark>isn</SPAN>’t a militant: That has become the “gray area” of combat operations, since the advent of gorilla-warfare (introduced in the Korea conflict and “amped up” in Vietnam).</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Would the US have been considered immoral to bomb a Nazi munitions factory in WW2 if that factory contained Jewish forced labor? That’s a tough one.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Was Lt. Calley, and his platoon, immoral for assaulting and killing women and children in the village of My <SPAN id=misspell-7 class=mark>Lai</SPAN>, South Vietnam, after receiving confirmed reports of <SPAN id=misspell-8 class=mark>Viet</SPAN> Cong inhabiting that village? My answer is “Yes”. However, it must be emphasized that not all <SPAN id=misspell-9 class=mark>Viet</SPAN> Cong were males between the ages of 18 and 60. There have been several instances of <SPAN id=misspell-10 class=mark>Viet</SPAN> Cong “suicide bombers”, many were women and children, with bombs strapped to their bodies as they entered US observation posts and compounds, resulting in letters to next-of-kin.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">In addition to those “non-military aged” combatants killed as a result of such operations, there are other (just as severe) remnants of “collateral damage”, such as . . .</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Bill, good friend of mine that I met while attending North Idaho College (I mentioned this earlier on the Viz), suffered from <SPAN id=misspell-11 class=mark>PTSD</SPAN>. He and I shared more than a couple beers discussing our times in the military. I learned from him what caused his <SPAN id=misspell-12 class=mark>PTSD</SPAN>.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Bill was an artilleryman in the Marines in Vietnam. As an artilleryman, his team would receive missions that simply included grid coordinates and the types and levels of shelling to conduct. Many times his team was called on to use white phosphorus shells (extremely incendiary). He never had the “opportunity” to see the results of his team’s shelling up close until . . .</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Bill’s team was called on to conduct white phosphorus saturation shelling of a target approximately one square kilometer in size. His team hit the target heavily for, what he felt, was a couple hours. After the fires and smoke had degenerated, Bill and his team were ordered to conduct a recon patrol of the target . . . a village of <SPAN id=misspell-13 class=mark>hootches</SPAN> containing the burned bodies of elderly women and children. It was learned that there were <SPAN id=misspell-14 class=mark>VC</SPAN> in the village, but they had cleared out long before the shelling began.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I haven’t had any contact with Bill in quite a while. I only hope that is at peace with himself.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">So, you see, Sunil (and I am paraphrasing here) . . .</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">War NEVER proves who is right, only who is left.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN id=misspell-16 class=mark>Seeya</SPAN> round town, Moscow.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Tom Hansen</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Sunil Ramalingam<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:51 AM<BR><B>Cc:</B> vision 2020<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Beating dead horses</SPAN></div></DIV></DIV>
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<div style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Tom,<BR><BR>You are right, it is confusing, primarily because it's poorly written. I was thinking of the Al-<SPAN id=misspell-19 class=mark>Awlaki</SPAN> murder when I wrote the first sentence, and am referring specifically to that killing in my first sentence.<BR><BR>The second quote goes to the Obama administration's position (or lie) that it's killing militants with its drone campaign; they can make it because of their expansive definition of 'militants.'<BR><BR>I should be more clear when I write. For clarity's sake, let me say I find both categories of killing disgusting and illegal, and I can't support someone who is doing this.<BR><BR>Sunil</SPAN></div>
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<div style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">CC: <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>From: <A href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Beating dead horses<BR>Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 06:31:14 -0700<BR>To: <A href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</A></SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sunil -</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I am puzzled a little, honestly, by your comments.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Are you addressing "ALL [my emphasis] military age males in a strike zone" or just those that are US citizens (as suggested by your opening sentence)?</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If the former, I will have more to say. If the latter, I kinda (in spirit) agree with you.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN id=misspell-22 class=mark>Seeya</SPAN> round town, Moscow.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">"If not us, who?</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If not now, when?"</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>On May 30, 2012, at 6:03, Sunil Ramalingam <<A href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Chuck (or is it Chick?)<BR><BR>I'm looking for the section in the Constitution that says the President, on his own say so, can kill US citizens, without due process. Where is it?<BR><BR>Here's <SPAN id=misspell-25 class=mark>Greenwald</SPAN> on this issue, yesterday:<BR><BR><A href="http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/obama_the_warrior/singleton/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/obama_the_warrior/singleton/</A><BR><BR>Here's something to be proud of: "Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect <B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'">counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants</SPAN></B>, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent." (From this
other <SPAN id=misspell-26 class=mark>Greenwald</SPAN> article yesterday: <A href="http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/singleton/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/singleton/</A> )<BR><BR>Yep, if we killed them, they must have been militants, unless someone proves otherwise, after they're dead. Of course, when we send drones back to kill rescuers and mourners, it may be hard to prove the innocence of the murder victims. And we should believe the state, because <SPAN id=misspell-27 class=mark>Obama's</SPAN> president, right? If he says it, it must be true? How many Obama supporters took the same position when Bush was president?<BR><BR>How can we 'eliminate <SPAN id=misspell-28 class=mark>al</SPAN> <SPAN id=misspell-29 class=mark>Quaeda</SPAN>' when every time we blow up people, we help them recruit?<BR><BR>Sunil</SPAN></div>
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<div style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 16:59:39 -0700<BR>From: <A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A><BR>To: <A href="mailto:ckovis@turbonet.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:ckovis@turbonet.com">ckovis@turbonet.com</A><BR>CC: <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Beating dead horses</SPAN></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mr. <SPAN id=misspell-31 class=mark>Kovis</SPAN>,</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">It concerns me that you don't know the difference between an opinion piece and an article strictly written with</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">empirical facts backed by several sources for accuracy. One is subjective, and the other is objective.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">You can post 100s of opinion pieces by anti-war, anti-Obama, or anti-current US policy writers, it doesn't substantiate your claims that Obama is targeting innocent civilians.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">"When he applies his <SPAN class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-32 class=mark>lawyering</SPAN></SPAN> skills to <SPAN class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-33 class=mark>counterterrorism</SPAN></SPAN>, it is usually to enable, not constrain, his ferocious campaign against Al <SPAN class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-34 class=mark>Qaeda</SPAN></SPAN> -</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: red; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> even when it comes to killing an American cleric in Yemen, a decision that Mr. Obama told colleagues was "an easy one."</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This is not the full truth, which makes it a lie. <A href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: black">If you read the article which the opinion writer is referring to</SPAN></A>, you would see that Obama has only targeted 15 Yemen with American ties, all plotting an attack on American soil. It doesn't matter if someone is a cleric from <SPAN class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-35 class=mark>Mukalla</SPAN></SPAN>, Yemen</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #0066cc; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">, </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">or Moscow, Russia, or Moscow, Idaho, if they are plotting to kill Americans in the United States or elsewhere, I
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">It appears to me, you reject any policy the US has of eliminating Al <SPAN class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-36 class=mark>Qaeda</SPAN></SPAN>, an organization that plotted, funded, and executed 3,000 American civilians, including children, and would do it again given a chance. </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Donovan J. Arnold</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Chuck <SPAN id=misspell-37 class=mark>Kovis</SPAN> <<A href="mailto:ckovis@turbonet.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:ckovis@turbonet.com">ckovis@turbonet.com</A>><BR><B>To:</B> Donovan Arnold <<A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>> <BR><B>Cc:</B> "<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>" <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>> <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:32 PM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Beating dead
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">From the New York Times via Reader Supported News:</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">"In interviews with The New York Times, three dozen of his current and former advisers described Mr. <SPAN class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-38 class=mark>Obama's</SPAN></SPAN> evolution since taking on the role, without precedent in presidential history, of personally overseeing the shadow war with Al <SPAN class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-39 class=mark>Qaeda</SPAN></SPAN>. They describe a paradoxical leader who shunned the legislative deal-making required to close the detention facility at <SPAN class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-40 class=mark>Guantánamo</SPAN></SPAN> Bay in Cuba, but approves lethal action without hand-wringing. While he was adamant about narrowing the fight and improving relations with the Muslim world, he has followed the metastasizing enemy into new and dangerous lands. When he applies his <SPAN
class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-41 class=mark>lawyering</SPAN></SPAN> skills to <SPAN class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-42 class=mark>counterterrorism</SPAN></SPAN>, it is usually to enable, not constrain, his ferocious campaign against Al <SPAN class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-43 class=mark>Qaeda</SPAN></SPAN> -</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: red"> even when it comes to killing an American cleric in Yemen, a decision that Mr. Obama told colleagues was "an easy one."</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> " (My emphasis)</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1645222319MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I opposed Democrat Lyndon Johnson and the Vietnam War. I oppose Democrat Barack Obama and the Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Iran Wars. When you have a constitutional law professor saying that it is "an easy one" to kill a fellow U.S. citizen without what passes now days for "due process," don't expect me to go along with it. I find it disgusting that more people in this country don't have the guts to put a stop to this at the ballot box. As a country, we will never learn, when a former <SPAN class=yiv1645222319mark><SPAN id=misspell-44 class=mark>SDS'er</SPAN></SPAN> is an apologist for a President who says the decision to kill a fellow human being and fellow American citizen is easy. Chuck <SPAN id=misspell-45 class=mark>Kovis</SPAN></SPAN></div></DIV>
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