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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Wayne Price inquires:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“How about staying home and minding our own business? “<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We tried that once, Mr. Price, immediately following World War 1. It seems we simply could not turn our backs on the expansion of Nazism in Europe.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Perhaps political isolationism would be more appropriate.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tom Hansen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Moscow, Idaho<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Wayne Price<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> Donovan Arnold<br><b>Cc:</b> vision 2020<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Beating dead horses<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>How about staying home and minding our own business? <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Wayne<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On May 30, 2012, at 8:08 AM, Donovan Arnold wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Mr. Price,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>What specific policy do you think the US should instigate that will result in zero innocent casualties, or less casualties than we currently inflict, about 250 a year, according to Human Watch.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Donovan J. Arnold<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Wayne Price <<a href="mailto:bear@moscow.com">bear@moscow.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> Sunil Ramalingam <<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>> <br><b>Cc:</b> vision 2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:50 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Beating dead horses</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv395969366><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Sunil, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>It's right next to the section that talks about it being OK to invade the sovereign territory of another country, either by sending in troops, or aircraft, or just bombing them, and because it's the United States, it's NOT an act of war!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>It wasn't right when the Bush Administration did it, it's not right now, and it won't be right if a Romney Administration does it, God forbid! One of the big issues as I see it is that once you loose the moral high ground in the so called "War on Terrorism", you can't get it back, and we appear to have lost it years ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Wayne<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>On May 30, 2012, at 6:03 AM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Chuck (or is it Chick?)<br><br>I'm looking for the section in the Constitution that says the President, on his own say so, can kill US citizens, without due process. Where is it?<br><br>Here's <span class=mark>Greenwald</span> on this issue, yesterday:<br><br><a href="http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/obama_the_warrior/singleton/">http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/obama_the_warrior/singleton/</a><br><br>Here's something to be proud of: "Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect <b>counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants</b>, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent." (From this other <span class=mark>Greenwald</span> article yesterday:<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/singleton/">http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/singleton/</a><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>)<br><br>Yep, if we killed them, they must have been militants, unless someone proves otherwise, after they're dead. Of course, when we send drones back to kill rescuers and mourners, it may be hard to prove the innocence of the murder victims. And we should believe the state, because <span class=mark>Obama's</span> president, right? If he says it, it must be true? How many Obama supporters took the same position when Bush was president?<br><br>How can we 'eliminate <span class=mark>al</span> <span class=mark>Quaeda</span>' when every time we blow up people, we help them recruit?<br><br>Sunil<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 16:59:39 -0700<br>From:<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a><br>To:<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:ckovis@turbonet.com" target="_blank">ckovis@turbonet.com</a><br>CC:<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Beating dead horses<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Mr. <span class=mark>Kovis</span>,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>It concerns me that you don't know the difference between an opinion<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>piece<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>and an<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>article<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>strictly written with<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>empirical<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>facts backed by several sources for accuracy. One is subjective, and the other is objective.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>You can post 100s of opinion pieces by anti-war, anti-Obama, or anti-current US policy writers, it doesn't substantiate your claims that Obama is targeting innocent civilians.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>"When he applies his<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>lawyering</span><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>skills to<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>counterterrorism</span>, it is usually to enable, not constrain, his ferocious campaign against Al<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>Qaeda</span><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>-</span><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:red'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:red'>even when it comes to killing an American cleric in Yemen, a decision that Mr. Obama told colleagues was "an easy one."</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>This is not the full truth, which makes it a lie.<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html" target="_blank"><span style='color:black'>If you read the article which the opinion writer is<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>referring<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>to</span></a>, you would see that Obama has only targeted 15 Yemen with American ties, all plotting an attack on American soil. It doesn't matter if someone is a cleric from<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>Mukalla</span>, Yemen</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#0066CC'>,<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>or<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>Moscow, Russia, or Moscow, Idaho, if they are plotting to kill Americans in the United States or elsewhere, I say more power to the President to bring a drone plane down on their head.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>It appears to me, you reject any policy the US has of eliminating Al<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>Qaeda</span>, an organization that<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>plotted, funded, and executed 3,000 American civilians, including children, and would do it again given a chance.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Donovan J. Arnold<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Chuck <span class=mark>Kovis</span> <<a href="mailto:ckovis@turbonet.com" target="_blank">ckovis@turbonet.com</a>><br><b>To:</b><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>Donovan Arnold <<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Cc:</b><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>"<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:32 PM<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>Beating dead horses</span><span style='font-family:"Times","serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Times","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv395969366ecxyiv916931653><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Times","serif";color:black'>From the New York Times via Reader Supported News:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Times","serif";color:black'>"In interviews with The New York Times, three dozen of his current and former advisers described Mr.<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>Obama's</span><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>evolution since taking on the role, without precedent in presidential history, of personally overseeing the shadow war with Al<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>Qaeda</span>. They describe a paradoxical leader who shunned the legislative deal-making required to close the detention facility at<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>Guantánamo</span><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>Bay in Cuba, but approves lethal action without hand-wringing. While he was adamant about narrowing the fight and improving relations with the Muslim world, he has followed the metastasizing enemy into new and dangerous lands. When he applies his<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>lawyering</span><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>skills to<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>counterterrorism</span>, it is usually to enable, not constrain, his ferocious campaign against Al<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>Qaeda</span><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>-</span><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space><span style='font-family:"Times","serif";color:red'> </span></span><span style='font-family:"Times","serif";color:red'>even when it comes to killing an American cleric in Yemen, a decision that Mr. Obama told colleagues was "an easy one."</span><span style='font-family:"Times","serif";color:black'> " (My emphasis)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Times","serif";color:black'>I opposed Democrat Lyndon Johnson and the Vietnam War. I oppose Democrat Barack Obama and the Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Iran Wars. When you have a constitutional law professor saying that it is "an easy one" to kill a fellow U.S. citizen without what passes now days for "due process," don't expect me to go along with it. I find it disgusting that more people in this country don't have the guts to put a stop to this at the ballot box. As a country, we will never learn, when a former<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><span class=mark>SDS'er</span><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span>is an apologist for a President who says the decision to kill a fellow human being and fellow American citizen is easy. Chuck <span class=mark>Kovis</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Times","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Times","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><br>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the <span class=mark>Palouse</span> since 1994.<span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><span class=yiv395969366apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=======================================================<br>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>serving the communities of the <span class=mark>Palouse</span> since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>=======================================================<br>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>serving the communities of the <span class=mark>Palouse</span> since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> <span class=mark>mailto</span>:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>