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No, Paul, it is NOT "the main point of contention" that the Christ Church people "simply think that the historical facts of slavery differ from what's normally understood by historians" -- two of whose criticism of that view caused our thin-skinned patriarchal bigot Wilson to seek their censure by the Governor and the UI President. <br><br>Just to give you an idea of how generous Wilson is in his extension of the freedom of others to interfere with his mission . . . <br><br>Wilson's beliefs are made manifest in his words, and those words promote ideas that are dangerous to civil, stable society as you or I know it, and sound the death knell to anything resembling a flourishing, just and righteous -- or Christian -- society beyond that. His proud claim to be a "paleo-Confederate," his buddying around with Neo-Confederates, his attempts to persuade his followers that Blacks enjoyed being enslaved and his insistence that such slavery was Biblical -- all of this hints, minimally, at something less than mere errors of historical understanding. I'm a Bible student, not a scholar, but I can assure you that Antebellum slavery was in no way similar to Roman or earlier Hebraic slaveholding, and it was not at any point "Biblically defensible." Given that he makes his living pulling the hermeneutical and political wool over other Christians' eyes, it damned well matters.<br><br>It's one thing to simply err in one's grasp of history. I'm probably not the person to go to on the finer details of the Pelopennesian Wars, for example, but my errors would be inconsequential and subject to the derision they deserve if I choose to spout off on that of which I know nothing, although if I "see differently" in the service of a dangerous agenda, much less call that agenda "Christian," I deserve every bit of condemnation I incur. I won't call you "evil" for it, but I struggle with how to tell you how little I care that you and others consider me "intolerant" for condemning Wilson and his lackeys (a term I used in speaking to him by phone three weeks ago, just in case you think I feel like it's OK to just scurry around Vision 2020 rather than engage courageously with him personally. Been there, done that, will do it again any time he's up to it).<br><br>I laugh when, in the movie "Best In Show," the announcer intones that Columbus came over on the Mayflower. Such ignorance is funny in reel life, sad in real life. But I would urge you to really consider if all "different thinking" on historical, social, political, and religious matters is benign and worthy of defense. <br><br>In this case, we have an indefensible malignancy of the worst type -- that which invokes God. Its spread won't be because I and a few others stayed silent in its metastasizing. <br><br><font style="" color="#8064a2"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><font style="" face="Verdana">Keely<br>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com<br></font></font></font><br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:51:40 -0700<br>From: godshatter@yahoo.com<br>To: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "We are the answer"<br><br>
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If members of Christ Church were going around enslaving people, you
might have a point. As it is, they simply think that the historical
facts of slavery differ from what's normally understood by
historians. I'm not comfortable ostracizing a group merely because
of what they think about something. That seems to be the main point
of contention, here. <br>
<br>
There is a huge difference between murdering a person based solely
on their race or culture, and thinking, well, whatever it is that
the Christ Churchers think exactly about slavery in the Old South.
Or, more simply, between murdering anyone for any reason and
thinking thoughts others find offensive.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 03/30/2012 07:49 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:1333162190.43854.YahooMailNeo@web162902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com">
<div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);background-color:rgb(255, 255,\00000d\00000a 255);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div style="right:auto"><span style="right:auto">Paul,</span></div>
<div style="right:auto"><span style="right:auto"></span> </div>
<div style="right:auto"><span style="right:auto">You are
right that everyone needs to
work on caring and accepting their neighbors for the people
that they are. However, it should concern you that some
people do not <span style="right:auto" id="ecxmisspell-0"><span>acknowledge</span></span>
the human <span style="right:auto" id="ecxmisspell-1"><span>atrocities</span></span>
that <span style="right:auto" id="ecxmisspell-2"><span>occurred</span></span>
with the slavery of a race not that long ago. A race that
even today feels and <span style="right:auto" id="ecxmisspell-3"><span>sufferers</span></span> the <span style="right:auto" id="ecxmisspell-4"><span>consequences</span></span>
of those events. It is in effect racist to not <span style="right:auto" id="ecxmisspell-5"><span style="right:auto">acknowledge</span></span> the human suffering and
violations that <span style="right:auto" id="ecxmisspell-6"><span>occurred</span></span>
to a race of people. If we can ignore or <span style="right:auto" id="ecxmisspell-7"><span>deceive</span></span>
others into ignoring one of the greatest human rights
violations in the United States, than we can easily ignore
all other human rights violations. Which, in effect, puts
all humans, including yourself and everyone you care about
at risk. Where one person's rights are ignored and violated,
<span style="right:auto" id="ecxmisspell-8"><span style="right:auto">everyone <span style="right:auto" id="ecxmisspell-0">else</span></span></span> can
be violated as well. That should concern you. It is not the
practice or belief in a religion that people object to, but
rather the practice of racist preaching that the violation
of human rights that <span style="right:auto" id="ecxmisspell-1"><span>occurred</span></span> to Blacks in
the United States really didn't happen that people are
objecting to. </span></div>
<div style="right:auto"><span style="right:auto"></span> </div>
<div style="right:auto"><span style="right:auto">Donovan
Arnold</span></div>
<div style="right:auto"><br>
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<b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
Paul Rumelhart <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
Saundra Lund <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm"><v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, March 30, 2012 6:59 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Vision2020] "We are the answer"<br>
</font></div>
<br>
<br>
If black teenagers wearing hoods were being harassed here in
Moscow, I'd <br>
be suggesting that we should all be more tolerant of others
on this <br>
list. If Muslim women in Moscow were being harassed I'd be
suggesting <br>
that we should all be more tolerant of each other. But if
one <br>
particular faith is being singled out because of their
beliefs and some <br>
bad blood between list members, I'm effectively shunned if I
suggest <br>
that we be more tolerant of them.<br>
<br>
What a world.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 03/30/2012 02:25 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:<br>
> Visionaries:<br>
><br>
> I know not all here would agree -- some choose to focus
on the "intolerance"<br>
> of so-called <span id="ecxmisspell-5" class="mark">Intoleristas</span>
rather than on the public intolerance of bigoted<br>
> groups that galvanized some of us to pull our
complacent heads from the sand<br>
> -- but this eloquently and accurately reflects my
thoughts:<br>
> "We must be active architects of a better country and a
better world.<br>
> Silence in the face of bigotry and discrimination is
agreement and consent.<br>
> We must challenge every instance of inequality, no
matter how small it is.<br>
> While overcoming our history's dark side is not
pleasant, it is something we<br>
> must actively do every day."<br>
><br>
> Here's the full letter that was published in today's
Moscow-Pullman Daily<br>
> News:<br>
><br>
> Letter to the Editor<br>
> We are the answer<br>
> Posted: Friday, March 30, 2012 1:00 am | Updated: 8:22
am, Fri Mar 30, 2012.<br>
><br>
> My heart is deeply grieved by the recent news that <span id="ecxmisspell-6" class="mark">Shaima</span> <span id="ecxmisspell-7" class="mark">Alawadi</span>, an Iraqi<br>
> mother of five living in California was beaten to death
by a tire iron.<br>
> Found on her body was a note that said, "Go back to
your own country. You're<br>
> a terrorist." This incident shows the long-reaching
effects the political<br>
> rhetoric and rancor of the past 10 years has had on the
American psyche. A<br>
> spark of anger and hatred spurred by our popular
culture and political<br>
> leaders has turned into a fire within the fringe of our
country.<br>
><br>
> Gay youth are committing suicide due to relentless
intimidation and<br>
> harassment. <span id="ecxmisspell-8" class="mark">Travyon</span>
Martin was gunned down for what some call "wearing a<br>
> hood while black." And the murder of <span id="ecxmisspell-9" class="mark">Alawadi</span>. All point to
a startling<br>
> problem. There is a dark side of American culture.
While it's underground,<br>
> it's still there. A deep seated resentment of other
races, of people unlike<br>
> us, lies in the hearts of many. This dark side exists
everywhere. I cannot<br>
> count how many times I have heard racial, homophobic
and sexist slurs at<br>
> sporting events, social gatherings, even in the work
place and classes. This<br>
> isn't just a problem isolated to my community, but it
is ingrained within<br>
> the very fabric of our society.<br>
><br>
> It would be easy for us to give up hope, hope of a
better tomorrow, a<br>
> tomorrow without wrathful hatred and reckless violence.
But we cannot. We<br>
> are the answer to the problem. We must be active
architects of a better<br>
> country and a better world. Silence in the face of
bigotry and<br>
> discrimination is agreement and consent. We must
challenge every instance of<br>
> inequality, no matter how small it is. While overcoming
our history's dark<br>
> side is not pleasant, it is something we must actively
do every day.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Derrick <span id="ecxmisspell-10" class="mark">Skaug</span><br>
> <span id="ecxmisspell-11" class="mark">ASWSU</span>
Vice-President Elect<br>
> Pullman<br>
><br>
> __________<br>
><br>
> Indeed.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Saundra Lund<br>
> Moscow, ID<br>
><br>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for
good people to do<br>
> nothing.<br>
> ~ Edmund Burke<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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> <span id="ecxmisspell-14" class="mark">mailto</span>:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
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><br>
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