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Your philosophically meandering observations notwithstanding, Jay, I would reiterate that I don't consider Paul evil and I doubt than anyone else really does, either. Stubborn, perhaps, or naive. Maybe just unaware of the many layers of onion-like peeling away of Wilsonian activities that reveal not only repeated harm and error, but a core that's un-Biblical, unloving, and unable, at least to me, to survive scrutiny from decent people who care about the faith or their communities. I cling to the hope that the more Paul truly examines Kirk history, connections, theology and practice, he'll understand why some of us are so vehement in our refusal to "tolerate" their particular ideology. I cling to this hope because however much I think he's not seeing things clearly, I believe he's a decent guy. I don't think it does me or any cause I embrace to refer to him as "evil," and I don't, won't, and haven't. It really doesn't matter to me if either my refusal to call him evil or to blissfully, blithely "exonerate" Paul bothers anyone. Sometimes decent people can't or don't see things we wish they would; they don't believe they're accepting or condoning evil and would be loathe to do so. But they remain unconvinced. I intend to continue in my attempts to speak truth here and pray Paul will come to understand. My calling him "evil" would hardly bring about that end.<br><br><font style="" color="#8064a2"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><font style="" face="Verdana">Keely<br>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com<br></font></font></font><br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:23:41 -0700<br>From: jborden@datawedge.com<br>To: godshatter@yahoo.com; art.deco.studios@gmail.com<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Posturing Ennui: Deja Vu All Over Again<br><br>
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</style><div class="ecxWordSection1"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Here we have an accusation of Paul being “evil” because he didn’t specifically address something. (By this logic any person that doesn’t specifically denounce every aspect of evil must therefore be in cahoots with it… evil by omission?)</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And in that same post, we have a quote from Edmund Burke… but it’s been modified to include women because the original quote didn’t contain the reference.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">By the same logic you’re using to accuse Paul of being evil, you can say that Edmund Burke must have hated women… since he didn’t specifically mention them. And because of that, anyone who quotes Edmund Burke must also be evil, since he obviously hated women.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yes, of course it’s ridiculous… but no more so than connecting the dots from “Paul” to “evil”. There are far better uses for the word “evil” than to waste it on Paul. The most Paul seems guilty of is being in disagreement in what is considered a “just world”. </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">That’s not evil.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jay</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"></span></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Rumelhart<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:19 PM<br><b>To:</b> Art Deco<br><b>Cc:</b> vision2020@moscow.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Posturing Ennui: Deja Vu All Over Again</span></p></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><br>Evil, huh. You give these guys too much power. Try acceptance, tolerance, and dialogue. If you think Christ Church is evil, then you have no clue what evil really is.<br><br>Paul<br><br>On 03/28/2012 04:17 PM, Art Deco wrote: </p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Didn't Edmund Burke write:</p><h2><span style="color:maroon">‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men </span>[and women]<span style="color:maroon"> do nothing’</span></h2><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><br>Rose and her friends are obviously of the Edmund Burke school of thought and action. Rumelhart not. <br><br>But we nknew that when Rumelhart failed to respond to the questions about the likelihood of serial pedophile Steven Sitler future behavior. Rumelhart is a bystander in the quest for a better, more just world. He fits the mold that Cultmaster Douglas Wilson hopes that the majority of Moscow citizen's fit.<br><br>w.</p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Darrell Keim <<a href="mailto:keim153@gmail.com">keim153@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Love this quote, Rose! Why, you ask? Cuz if the pope REALLY was infallible the world would be flat and fascism WOULD be dead! The fact of the latter two negates the former. Makes me chuckle...</p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 3:28 PM, Rosemary Huskey <<a href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com">donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</a>> wrote:</p><p class="ecxMsoNormal">...Of course you </p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><br>and anyone else is free to think the world is flat, the pope is infallible,</p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal">and fascism is dead...Rose Huskey </p><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><br><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Paul Rumelhart [mailto:<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>]<br>Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:07 PM<br>To: Ted Moffett<br>Cc: Rosemary Huskey; <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>; vision2020<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Posturing Ennui: Deja Vu All Over Again<br><br><br>I'm still amazed that I can be called "basically disinterested in universal<br>human rights" because I don't care what a person's opinion on antebellum<br>slavery is. I didn't say that I don't care about the plight of slaves in<br>that time frame, mind you, just that I don't care what someone else's<br>opinion on the subject is. Do people here know or care what their grocer<br>thinks about the Bataan Death March? Or what their hair stylist thinks<br>about Nagasaki or Hiroshima?<br><br>The doubly amazing part to me is that this can be directly attributed<br>automatically to my ethnicity, gender, and economic level without causing an<br>outrage on this list.<br><br>For the record, I have this belief that people should be allowed to think<br>what they want, believe what they want, and hold whatever opinions they want<br>whether or not I agree with them. Crazy, I know.<br><br>Paul<br><br>On 03/28/2012 10:32 AM, Ted Moffett wrote:<br>> There's no harm in repeating important points, indeed it is often<br>> necessary, unavoidable, so this post is not meant as criticism of<br>> anyone.<br>><br>> When I read the recent March 2012 exchange under the subject heading<br>> "Posturing Ennui" as indicated in the altered subject heading of this<br>> post, I was amazed to recall that these three individuals (Tom, Paul,<br>> Rose) in 2009 exchanged dialog where the exact same wording was used<br>> about roughly the same subject, implying that being "white, male,<br>> middle class" was an influence in one of the respondents views on how<br>> to deal with racism or slavery or hate crimes:<br>><br>> <a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2009-August/065757.html" target="_blank">http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2009-August/065757.html</a><br>> [Vision2020] Officials Counter Racist Acts Rosemary donaldrose at<br>> <a href="http://cpcinternet.com" target="_blank">cpcinternet.com</a> Sat Aug 22 16:50:32 PDT 2009<br>><br>> Tom is dead on to raise the alarm about this guy. Paul, your sense of<br>> white, male, middle class entitlement is showing. I guess you don't<br>> understand that silence is assent - or you don't care.<br>> -----------------------<br>> And in March 2012 in the post below:<br>><br>> "I’m guessing that you are basically disinterested in universal human<br>> rights because you are lucky enough to be born male, white, and middle<br>class..."<br>><br>> On 3/25/12, Rosemary Huskey<<a href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com">donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>>> You have identified the nub of the problem, Paul when you write: “I<br>>> don't particularly care what views a person holds about antebellum<br>>> slavery, or who they think should be in charge of the finances in their<br>marriage.”<br>>><br>>> Why is antebellum slavery (and its unhappy, damning legacy)<br>>> unimportant to you? Aren’t you appalled by a culture that frequently<br>>> treated human beings with less regard than domestic farm animals?<br>>> Don’t you find it obscene that anyone would glorify and defend the<br>>> vicious, repulsive culture of the Old South? Is antebellum slavery<br>>> outside your realm of interest because it was a historic rather than<br>>> a contemporary event? If so, are you equally indifferent to modern<br>>> slavery in parts of Africa, Saudi Arabia, and other Middle Eastern<br>countries?<br>>><br>>> Do recent hate crimes arouse a sense of outrage in you? Do you feel<br>>> compassion for the victims? How do you feel about the murders of<br>Matthew<br>>> Shepherd or James Byrd? Is there a gaping hole where your conscience<br>>> ought to be? Are you are aware that your posturing ennui gives tacit<br>>> consent to the hate mongering antics of sociopaths?<br>>><br>>> I’m guessing that you are basically disinterested in universal human<br>>> rights because you are lucky enough to be born male, white, and<br>>> middle class – all of which are unearned privilege. And, really, if<br>>> you think the most damaging aspect of patriarchy is limited to who is<br>>> in charge of family finance (the words “in charge” are particularly<br>>> revealing, Paul) you are entirely, 100%, just plain old, ordinarily,<br>>> wrong while concurrently demonstrating a profound ignorance about<br>>> elements of successful relationships, marriage and/or partnerships.<br>>><br>>> Rose Huskey<br>>> From: <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a><br>>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]<br>>> On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart<br>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 11:07 AM<br>>> To: Tom Hansen<br>>> Cc: vision2020<br>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .<br>>><br>>> This is a nice example of the intolerance I'm talking about. I don't<br>>> particularly care what views a person holds about antebellum slavery,<br>>> or who they think should be in charge of the finances in their<br>>> marriage. I'll still sit down and have a beer with them.<br>>><br>>> If the Intoleristas had instead been of the frame of mind of "sorry,<br>>> we're not going to let you turn the Palouse into a theocracy, but<br>>> we're still happy to have you as part of our community", then they<br>>> might not have been so quick to accuse some of you of vandalism when<br>>> they reported the incidents to the police. Go out of your way to<br>>> make yourself someone's enemy, and they will think of you first when<br>something like that happens to them.<br>>><br>>> Paul<br>>><br>>> On 03/25/2012 04:37 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:<br>>><br>>> Intoleristas<br>>><br>>> (in tol er és ta), n.<br>>><br>>> * A person holding anti-slavery sentiments<br>>> * A committed feminist.<br>>> * A supporter of the Constitution, human rights, and equality for all,<br>>> regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, economic status, or<br>>> sexual orientation.<br>>> * A person with a wholesome proclivity for outing shifty hypocrites,<br>>> shameless liars, and sham historians.<br>>> * A person who is neither intimidated nor silenced by right-wing,<br>theocratic<br>>> bullies, or their sycophantic toadies.<br>>> * A person who wears the title proudly as a reminder that he/she is<br>about<br>>> the business of democracy.<br>>><br>>> "It is not so much what we are as much as what we are about."<br>>><br>>> A flash from the past . . .<br>>><br>>> <a href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/sounds/Intoleristas_020405.mp3" target="_blank">http://www.tomandrodna.com/sounds/Intoleristas_020405.mp3</a><br>>><br>>> Who can forget . . .<br>>><br>>> <a href="http://www.notonthepalouse.com/documents/Crouch_LMT_071506.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.notonthepalouse.com/documents/Crouch_LMT_071506.pdf</a><br>>><br>>> Let the whine flow . . .<br>>><br>>> <a href="http://www.notonthepalouse.com/Wilson_MPDcomplaint_071506.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.notonthepalouse.com/Wilson_MPDcomplaint_071506.pdf</a><br>>> <a href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/stuff/Dickison_RecReq.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.tomandrodna.com/stuff/Dickison_RecReq.jpg</a><br>>><br>>> <a href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/writofmandate" target="_blank">http://www.tomandrodna.com/writofmandate</a><br>>> ----------------------<br>>> There is, literally, loads and loads more, Mr. Rumelhart . . . like<br>>> letters sent from the un-pastor to then-Governor Kempthorne and<br>>> then-UI President White . . . Doug "Charlie Brown" Wilson's speech at<br>>> the Public Civility Forum at the Hamilton Indoor Recreation Center a<br>>> few years ago . . . the Great Christ Church Debate between the<br>>> Un-Pastor and the Intoleristas' own Keely Mix on KRFP. I could go on and<br>on and on and . . .<br>>><br>>> I'll jus' leevya with His Whineyness' own words . . .<br>>><br>>> <a href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/protest/Doug_Wilson_Liers_013107.mp3" target="_blank">http://www.tomandrodna.com/protest/Doug_Wilson_Liers_013107.mp3</a><br>>><br>>> Thanks for the promo, though.<br>>><br>>> image.jpeg<br>>> Seeya there, Moscow.<br>>><br>>> Tom Hansen<br>>><br>>> Wallace, Idaho<br>>><br>>> "If not us, who?<br>>><br>>> If not now, when?"<br>>><br>>> - Unknown<br><br><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================</p></div></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><br><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================</p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br><a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br><br></p><pre> </pre><pre> </pre><pre>=======================================================</pre><pre> List services made available by First Step Internet,</pre><pre> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</pre><pre> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a></pre><pre> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></pre><pre>=======================================================</pre><p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p></div><br>=======================================================
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