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<br>
Don't forget to factor in the good that a strong base-load of
electricity has helped to provide, such as the design, manufacture,
and operation of the computers we are using to converse and the
myriad of devices that allow us to discuss this over the net. I'm
also fond of warmth in the winter time and the ability to cook food
without an open fire.<br>
<br>
I just wanted to comment on this, though: "Add a rigorous global
program of birth control to this to reduce the demand for power (and
many other resources soon to become scarce)."<br>
<br>
What happens if someone doesn't agree with this idea and wants to
have more kids than you or society or whoever deems is necessary?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 03/27/2012 07:23 PM, Art Deco wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAB8VJX7edAADioZ3fmdAAYpn9B=_S4AzbT5iRwcW30brBUYuRg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">We do not know either the short term or long term
effects of this Japanese nuclear disaster yet, especially the long
term effects of the radiation leaked. Chuck Kovis is right on
target about his concerns. Of particular concern is the mutations
in sea life and their eventual consequences globally on the
oceanic environment and consequently on the food chain that
sustains much of life on earth. The huge barrage of flotsam
approaching our coast (now about 300 miles off the coast of
Canada) is at this time another unknown in the amount and effect
of radiation.<br>
<br>
I have been in systems since the late 1960's. In my opinion there
is no such thing as a fail-safe system or a perfectly secure
system. If one wanted to spend a lot of time, I think both of
these opinions could be proven in a proof analogous to Godel's
Proof. There is no way to eliminate human error or duplicity
whether in design or operation. There is no way to prove that any
design has provided for all possible conditions, since there is
yet to be designed any large system which did not create new,
unforeseen conditions. There is no way to correctly predict the
force of future natural disasters, as you illustrated in your
comments below.<br>
<br>
The consequences of unconsidered, unimagined, or incorrectly
predicted errors in the design, construction, and operation of a
nuclear power plant, and the disposal of waste from that plant are
are a risk, in my opinion, that do not justify the expected
reward. I am skeptical for reasons given above of any engineer's
claim about ultimate safety of nuclear power as compared to other
methods of energy production.<br>
<br>
You and I are not likely to contribute to the debate about whether
nuclear is the only way to go. In the 1980's I spent considerable
time and effort on this problem. Things have changed since them,
but I still believe that a combination of solar energy, other
alternate sources, energy efficient designs, and conservation is
the most sensible and safest way to go. Add a rigorous global
program of birth control to this to reduce the demand for power
(and many other resources soon to become scarce).<br>
<br>
w.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 6:15 PM, Paul
Rumelhart <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> <br>
While TEPCO's handling of the situation was atrocious, I
would also like to point out that the Fukushima Daichi plant
withstood a 9.0 earthquake followed by 40ft waves, which
were more than twice as high as their sea wall was built to
withstand. It was an act of God (don't mean that literally)
that was far on the outside of what they even thought was
possible in terms of likely occurrences.<br>
<br>
I've only been able to find references to three deaths
directly attributed to the Fukushima disaster. Two of them
occurred during the earthquake and tsunami, and one worker
who was in his 60's died of a sudden illness when cleaning
around the reactors, but they are unsure if it's
radiation-related because he was exposed to about as much
radiation as a chest x-ray.<br>
<br>
Anyway, compare and contrast to the coal mine fire that has
been burning underground for 50 years under Centralia,
Pennsylvania. That wasn't caused by a natural disaster of
epic proportions, it was caused by someone throwing some hot
ash in a landfill that didn't have a fire-resistant clay
barrier that was up-to-date. The fire is still burning
today.<br>
<br>
I just hate to see this incident used as the poster boy for
the anti-nuclear crowd. Sure, if they'd doubled the height
of the sea wall, or had moved the emergency generator to
higher ground instead of trusting the sea walls to hold, the
disaster might have been mostly diverted. This wasn't a
Chernobyl, where human error was the main cause of the
disaster.<br>
<br>
That having been said, there are newer designs out there
that they need to expedite testing on to ensure that even
this level of a disaster won't cause a containment breach.<br>
<br>
If we want to get off of oil and coal any time soon, nuclear
is the only real way to go. Eventually, they'll solve the
energy storage problems and make intermittent alternative
energy sources more viable. In the meantime, though,
nuclear is the only way to go for alternative base-load
generation. Well, and hydro, but there are only so many
rivers we can dam up.<br>
<br>
Paul
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 03/27/2012 08:37 AM, Art Deco wrote: </div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="h5"><br clear="all">
<img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="http://www.fncstatic.com/static/fn2/ws/img/print-logo.gif"
alt="">
<h1>Probe at Japan's crippled nuke plant finds fatal
radiation levels </h1>
<p> </p>
<p>Published March 27, 2012 | Associated Press</p>
<div>
<p>advertisement</p>
</div>
<p>A new probe at Japan's crippled nuclear power plant
has found fatal radiation levels and hardly any
cooling water inside one of the reactors, renewing
concerns about the plant's stability.</p>
<p>The operator of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear
plant says an endoscopic examination Tuesday
detected radiation levels up to 10 times the fatal
dose inside the No. 2 reactor's contain chamber,
suggesting challenges ahead in shutting down the
facility.</p>
<p>The probe also found the containment vessel had
cooling water up to only about 2 feet from the
bottom, far below the yards estimated when the
government declared the plant's stability in
December.</p>
<p>Plant workers also reported fresh leaks of
contaminated water from a water treatment unit, some
flowing into the ocean.</p>
<br>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/03/27/probe-at-japans-crippled-nuke-plant-finds-fatal-radiation-levels/"
target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/03/27/probe-at-japans-crippled-nuke-plant-finds-fatal-radiation-levels/</a></p>
<br>
-- <br>
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com"
target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br>
</div>
</div>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com"
target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br>
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