<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In part, Paul wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“</span>For example, a few years ago people on this list were suggesting that we boycott any business run by Christ Church members because of some conflict people on this list had with Doug.”<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What a selective memory you have, Paul!!! Actually, what started the whole boycott thing was Christ Church members boycotting local businesses with which they disagreed. That went on for <b>years</b> before there was any discussion of <b>personal</b> conscientious spending decisions by some as opposed to the <b>organized</b> boycotts by Christ Church. And, that history was rehashed for you – you participated in it – so you’re not ignorant of the background.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Funny that you only remember – and repeat – part of the story that fits into your stereotyping while ignoring the cause. Why is that, Paul?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And, you dislike the “Intolerista” thing. Take it up with Christ Church since they are the ones who decided to make up the word & apply it to any who challenged them. And, they are the ones who still apply the label to anyone who disagrees with them. They sell lectures about it and write articles about it and preach about it and talk about it at their silly conferences here and elsewhere and their supporters have it all over their blogs. It’s a regular part of their vocabulary used as a pejorative to describe people who challenge their deep-seated desire for and stealth attempts at theocracy, pure and simple.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Finally, I’m weary of repeating it, but we’ll give it yet another try for you simply because it offends me that you continue to not be honest. The objection to Christ Church <b>isn’t</b> that they choose to worship & believe a theological distortion with which we disagree – there are more than a couple of local churches that fit into that category.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rather, it’s that they advocate for a theocracy in which the law will force all of us to behave in the ways they want and punish those who don’t and deny opportunities to others. They want the benefits of being considered a church without following the rules required for the benefits they demand and abuse. “Live & let live” isn’t something they accept. They relish being divisive and waging a culture war <b>against</b> those of us who don’t share their beliefs. They are intolerant.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It really is that simple, Paul, and I truly don’t understand why you refuse to accept that’s the case for many/the majority of us who have been labeled “Intoleristas” by the Kirk. Further, it’s offensive that you continue to reject explanations contrary your preferred stereotyping that you’ve been given time and time again and instead repeatedly trot out the trite attacks you know aren’t honest. It’s like you refuse to listen to those you attack because it’s doesn’t fit into the picture you want to have. IOW, you have a real bias against those of us who aren’t interested in a theocracy, truly believe in <b>and are willing to fight for</b> our constitutional guarantee of freedom of – and from – religion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you consider that a “sh*tstorm,” so be it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Saundra<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Moscow, ID<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>~ Edmund Burke<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Rumelhart<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 24, 2012 8:29 PM<br><b>To:</b> Nicholas Gier<br><b>Cc:</b> vision2020<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br>You know what? It actually is intolerance. The Christ Church leadership may not be stellar citizens according to your criteria, but I see so much ridicule and hatred directed at them on this list that I fail to see it as anything other than intolerance. For example, a few years ago people on this list were suggesting that we boycott any business run by Christ Church members because of some conflict people on this list had with Doug. I don't even remember what it was. A tolerant community would welcome people of all faiths, whether or not they thought their leadership were screw-ups.<br><br>This isn't directed at you, personally, by the way. It's just something that has bothered me as a long-time Vision2020 subscriber. I'm saying this in response to your post because I find you to be one of the more rational people on this list. Myself, I hope they manage to build the cathedral of their dreams, whatever that might be. The same goes for any other religious group out there. More power to them.<br><br>I just think that a more welcoming approach might be worth a try someday. Every single Christ Church member that I have spent more than a few minutes interacting with has turned out to be a nice, helpful person. More so than your average person, even. <br><br>I'm not just suggesting that we be more tolerant of them because I happen to know a few members of their church. If this was a Muslim group, witches, Satanists (of whatever variety), atheists, Scientologists, or any other minority religious group, I'd be suggesting the same thing. Welcome them to the community because they are people like we all are. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. <br><br>I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't complain about whatever it is they think Doug has been up to last, I just think that the "Intolerista" thing should be tossed out the window, as should the "not on the Palouse, not ever" idea. If it were a group distinguished because of gender, race, or sexual preference and people were being proud of their intolerance to them, I would expect everyone on this list to be rightly offended. I don't know why people intolerant of a religious tradition are being given a pass.<br><br>Anyway, rant over. I'll go prepare myself for the veritable shitstorm that I suspect is on it's way.<br><br>Paul<br><br>On 03/24/2012 01:54 PM, Nicholas Gier wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hail to the Vision! <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I once had an image file of an archictect's general plan for the the Kirk's Kirk. (Did Wilson know that "kirk" is Afrikaans for the churches of racist Dutch Calvinists?) It looked like a medieval cathedral and would take up the entire property. They foolishly assumed that they could use Gritman's parking lots, but permission was wisely refused. Their real estate agent tried to buy the large vacant piece to the southwest and Gritman refused to sell that as well.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It's not intolerant to dislkike intellectual dishonesty, ordinary dishonesty, bigotry, and bad manners.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I therefore sign myself a proud Intolerista,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Nick <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Bradford Cranmer <<a href="mailto:bradford.cranmer@gmail.com">bradford.cranmer@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>The name of that lot is The Christ Church Eternally Phantom Cathedral.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Tom Hansen <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank">thansen@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>Seeya round town, Moscow.<br><br>Tom Hansen<br>Moscow, Idaho<br><br>"If not us, who?<br>If not now, when?"<br><br>- Unknown<br><br><br><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> List services made available by First Step Internet,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>