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And the good legislator could've used the issue of pregnancy resulting from rape as an opportunity to . . . oh, I don't know . . . maybe discuss the importance of creating an environment that helps a woman feel safe enough to report rape to the police? Could he have, ummmm, maybe talked about the importance of doctors standing with their patients if they choose to report and press charges? Or maybe even . . . just brainstorming here . . . use his aptly-named Bully Pulpit to encourage vigorous prosecution of sex crimes? Harsh sentences for those convicted? Preventative measures to identify early on those young men who show signs of sexual, violent instability? Even express anger that ANY woman and even a few men ever experiences rape? <br><br>No? Nothing?<br><br>Nah. Instead, Winder talked about his suspicions that maybe rape isn't always rape and that when that woman who says she was raped seeks medical treatment, she should have to be grilled by a doctor who ought to be encouraged, Winder says, to ask her if the most traumatic event a woman can experience was maybe not really just, oops, a forgotten dalliance with her husband. It's not all that far from the thankfully still-hypothetical idea of a female physician being asked to interrogate a man seeking treatment for impotence if he finds that he can maintain an erection using pornography, or does he just have trouble with his wife? I think all men and all thinking, decent women would know how vile that would be. And I'm sorry to be so graphic here. Still, if you're embarrassed, guys, by reading this, imagine how embarrassing and vile and hateful it sounds to a woman when a male legislator suggests that she endure a vaginal probe to "educate" her about the developing fetus in her uterus. The example about guys and ED won't happen. <br><br>The nightmare is very close to happening to women. I hate abortion as much as anyone on this listserve, a position I've made clear before. But this is not the way to end abortion. It IS a way to roll back decades of progress for women and men, a means by which all life is devalued by an obsession solely on fetal life, an example of wrongly trying to use law to prevent something morally objectionable, and a cautionary tale of the dangers of patriarchy, without which no woman would be shamed for the results of an act that requires a man's participation. It's an incredibly hard issue to wrestle with for any woman, and the idea that she chooses to medically end her pregnancy with the same insouciance with which she chooses a green sweater over a blue one is offensive, untrue, insane, and dangerous. A woman's relationship with her God, if she believes; her doctor, whom she trusts; and, when applicable, her mate, is the only context in which abortion ought to be considered. The views of male legislators have no place, none at all, in this. <br><br>To put it another way, Mr. Winder -- we're just not that in to what you think on this one, pal.<br><br><font style="" color="#8064a2"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><font style="" face="Verdana">Keely<br>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com<br></font></font></font><br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: debismith@moscow.com<br>To: kjajmix1@msn.com; thansen@moscow.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<br>Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:41:37 -0500<br><br>
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<div><font face="Arial">Thank you, Keely. But they don't see it as about
womens' health. They see an opportunity to promote their anti-woman agenda. They
want a smaller government, one just big enough to invade a woman's womb and
citizens bedrooms. Their government would let the poor starve and die with no
medical attention, but would be ever vigilant to keep women from being
autonomous beings or gays/lesbians from being legally protected.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Approximately 1/3 of all women have experienced/will
experience sexual violence (and 1/5 of all men) during their life
time---<em><strong>go google this your own self before you start screaming at
me, you idiot MEN who promote anti-women legislation.</strong></em> Chuckles
Windy hasn't got a clue, and furthermore doesn't want one. I, however, am
more upset at the female legislators who jumped on the "blame and
re-victimise the victim" band wagon. Shame on them. They, at least, should
know better.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">A rape victim seeking an end to a pregnancy perpetrated by
violence, being forced to undergo another "rape" required by idiots with an
ideology that makes women shamed chattle, seems to be so far over the flaming
top as to make Idaho (and several other anti-women states) an international
laughingstock. And the racist candidate for a North Idaho sherriff position just
cements the picture of Idaho as a truly backwards (and beyond the 21st Century
norm) place to live. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Is it any wonder young people are running away from Idaho
in droves? Or that getting teachers to stay here is difficult? Or that even
long-time Republican legislators are sick and tired of this mess and opting out?
Or that students of color from WSU are terrified to cross the WA/ID border? The
people currently running this state are living in 1932, and want the rest of us
to go there with them....unfortunately, we are allowing them to
succeed.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">We need some real statesmen/women to step up, and we need
to get the real people of Idaho to rebel against these nasty, unethical,
immoral, tax-cheating, un-American, and power hungry crackers!</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Just MHO</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Debi R-S</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">PS excuse my typos and misspellings---I'm too hacked off
to use spell check tonight......</font></div>
<blockquote style="padding-right:0px;padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px;border-left:#000000 2px solid;margin-right:0px">
<div style="font:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background:#e4e4e4;font:10pt arial;font-color:black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="kjajmix1@msn.com" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</a>
</div>
<div style="font:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="thansen@moscow.com" href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> </div>
<div style="font:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 20, 2012 8:18
PM</div>
<div style="font:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Say What?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">The correct reason why Sen. Winder is left to "assume that's part
of the counseling that goes on" is that the verbal discourse between the woman
and her doctor is none of his business, and neither is the volitionality of
the sexual intercourse that resulted in the pregnancy. Our inability to
assume something that's none of our effing business probably is a good reason
for butting out.<br><br>I thank God my rape 30 years ago didn't result in
pregnancy, but the event was sufficiently traumatic that I believe I can
confidently assert that Winder hasn't any idea how utterly horrifying it would
be to have a doctor insist that a woman describe and compare her "normal
relations" in marriage to the violence inflicted upon her in rape. But I
don't think it's at all necessary to be a woman or a rape survivor to come to
that conclusion. It only requires that both mind and heart are working
in concert, something the Idaho and national GOP doesn't seem able to
manage. Until they can, could they do us all a favor and shut up, then,
about women's health issues?<br><br><font color="#8064a2"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><font face="Verdana">Keely<br>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com<br></font></font></font><br><br>
<div>
<div id="ecxSkyDrivePlaceholder"></div>> From: thansen@moscow.com<br>> Date:
Tue, 20 Mar 2012 18:04:57 -0700<br>> To: Vision2020@moscow.com<br>>
Subject: [Vision2020] Say What?<br>> <br>> “Rape and incest was used as
a reason to oppose this. I would hope that when a woman goes in to a physician
with a rape issue, that physician will indeed ask her about perhaps her
marriage, was this pregnancy caused by normal relations in a marriage or was
it truly caused by a rape. I assume that's part of the counseling that goes
on.”<br>> <br>> - Idaho State Senator Chuck Winder (R-Boise) (March 19,
2012)<br>> <br>> Courtesy of ABC News at:<br>>
http://abcnews.go.com/US/t/story/idaho-lawmaker-sparks-anger-abortion-comments-15964865<br>>
<br>> --------------------------------------<br>> <br>> Query for Mr.
[Henry D. "Hank"] Johnston: Sufficient citation?<br>> <br>> Seeya round
town, Moscow.<br>> <br>> Tom Hansen<br>> Moscow, Idaho<br>>
<br>> "If not us, who?<br>> If not now, when?"<br>> <br>> -
Unknown<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>>
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