Saundra,<br><br>The gist of your argument is that the problems are caused by irresponsible dog owners. I don't go Farmer's Market as much as I used to, but when I've been there, I've seen very little dog problems and a great deal of enjoyment of the dogs. I agree that the problems I've seen have been caused by clueless or inconsiderate dog owners.<br>
<br>If that is the case, why punish/deprive the responsible owner and those who enjoy seeing and interacting with the dogs?<br><br>Regulations can be crafted to identify the irresponsible parties and to take corrective action; if corrective actions fail, 86 their particular dogs from the market. If owners don't pick up their dog shit, 86 the owners while with their dogs from the market also.<br>
<br>School teachers sometimes punish everyone a the class for the wrong doing of some known or unknown child. I have always found this unjust and unjustifiable. Punish the guilty, not the innocent. Recent discussions about Farmer's market suggest that the city is heading for over/poorly designed regulation/changes, a sure way to emasculate a thriving, healthy, beneficial community activity.<br>
<br>w.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Saundra Lund <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Even though I, too, love dogs, I completely disagree with Wayne on this: other than service animals, I don’t believe dogs belong at the Farmer’s Market anymore. Actually, I suppose a more fair statement would be that some dog <b>owners</b> don’t belong at the Farmer’s Market, but since we can’t keep them out, we should be able to keep their dogs out.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">While we don’t frequent the Farmer’s Market as much as we used to (in part, due to the dogs), the Farmer’s Market seems to have the same problem with dogs the rest of Moscow has: too many people fail to leash <b>and/or</b> control their dogs, and to clean up after them. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Bluntly put, there’s nothing quite like getting some yummy food from a vendor & then noticing a terrible stench, only to find that you’ve stepped in a steaming pile of dog you-know-what. I’ve stepped in more of that at Farmer’s Market than I <b>ever</b> have at any parks in town, including the dog park! Perhaps those are the same owners who never clean up after their dogs anywhere . . . or maybe they just fail to notice what their dogs are doing in the crowd. Who know? But whatever the reason is, it’s flatly disgusting, not to mention completely unsanitary around food, particularly for the families who bring naturally small children whose hands & faces are naturally closer to the ground and who <b>do</b> belong at the Farmer’s Market.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Perhaps rather than banning dogs from Farmer’s Market, a better solution is to provide shoe cleaning stations so the rest of us have ways to take care of the problem for all those “wonderful and responsible” dog owners who pay no attention to their dogs crapping & pissing all over the place at the Market.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">And, just because I love dogs doesn’t mean that I love any dog who is decides to run & jump up on me . . . or to tie me up in its leash while its owner pays absolutely no attention to it. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve seen both of those things happen from the same dogs over & over again on the same day! Sheesh!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">And then, of course, there are those dog owners who think their dogs are so wonderful they should be able to harass every other dog at the Farmer’s Market. I don’t blame the offended dogs for snapping at those annoying ones, but I also don’t think it’s fair for the nearby people to be bashed into & nearly knocked over – and in the cases of small children, actually knocked to the ground – when the harasser lunges back from the harassed snapper.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In fairness, I’ve also seen a lot of dog owners who do keep their dogs leashed & under control, and I do enjoy seeing those dogs at Farmer’s Market or elsewhere around town.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">But, there are, IMO, far too many of the other kind, something that to me seemed to become a bigger issue as the Farmer’s Market became more successful.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">And, here’s another thing: the Farmer’s Market “community” has had ample opportunity to police itself with respect to misbehaving dogs & owners, and they’ve been pretty unsuccessful at it, either because people have just ignored the growing problem (which seems to be the case – 99% of people seem to just turn a blind eye) or because the irresponsible dog owners are . . . irresponsible! I tried to make helpful & informative comments a couple of times to “repeat offender” dog owners only to be ignored, or in one case, be told, “It’s not my problem you just hate dogs” rather than the owners simply taking responsibility. I have no idea what kind of dog owners these people are otherwise, but they certainly aren’t good Farmer’s Market “neighbors” & apparently have no interest in being good Farmer’s Market community members.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I actually know quite a few people who no longer go to Farmer’s Market precisely <b>because of</b> those irresponsible dog owners & their dogs: why are they less important than those who think that dogs – and not people – are more important???<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Wayne wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">“</span>Stop trying to fuck it up!!!!”<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I’d feel a lot better had you been telling that to all the dog owners in recent years who <b>already</b> have successfully done just that, not only for the responsible dog owners & their dogs, but also for others who’ve been pretty much driven away from Farmer’s Market.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">All of that said, I really don’t have a “dog in that fight” since we only rarely go to the Farmer’s Market anymore. Perhaps a good compromise might be to have a few dates certain “dog friendly” Farmer’s Markets so that those who want to bring their dogs to Farmer’s Market – and those who enjoy having dogs at the Market – still have the opportunity while those of us who don’t appreciate dogs at the Market aren’t excluded from this great community resource?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">JMHO,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Saundra<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Moscow, ID<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">~ Edmund Burke</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Art Deco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 17, 2012 10:09 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] The Animal Farmer's Market --Proposed Market Policies<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I would never take my dog to Farmer's Market, For consideration for her, mainly.<br><br>But I fail to understand to the real problem here, except intolerance. Have terrible incidents occurred? It doesn't take much effort to avoid getting too close to dogs if someone is afraid of them. Why take others freedom away for such a trivial thing? if a particular dog is a perpetual source of problems, a way can be found to deal with this. <br>
<br>I enjoy seeing dogs at the market. It appears that many others, including most of the dogs, do also.<br><br>What's next? A dress code? Banning babies (whose squalls are sometimes annoying, but no reason to ban them)? Banning out of county vendors? Censoring the lyrics of some of the entetainers?<br>
<br>Farmer's Market has been a very successful community endeavor for may years. Stop trying to fuck it up!!!!<br><br>w.<br><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 6:03 AM, Donovan Arnold <<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I think they should have a few times in the dogs daze of Summer where the Farmer's Market should be called The Animal Farmer's Market and allow people with animals to take them to the Downtown Farmer's Market. This way, the Farmer's Market can celebrate and embrace animals by including pet owners and their pets but still keep them separate from others on different days that have misgivings of sharing tight quarters with unknown animals and their children and allergies. Moscow has always been an inclusive community, and I think it should stay that way. Just my thoughts on the matter, anyways. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Donovan Arnold<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> Stephanie Kalasz <<a href="mailto:skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us" target="_blank">skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> "<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:34 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Vision2020] PR - Proposed Market Policies - CORRECTED WEBLINKS</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-variant:small-caps">City of Moscow </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">206 E Third Street<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Moscow, ID 83843<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Contact: Gary J. Riedner, City Supervisor<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">p | <a href="tel:208-883-7006" target="_blank">208-883-7006</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">e | <a href="mailto:griedner@ci.moscow.id.us" target="_blank">griedner@ci.moscow.id.us</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">w | <a href="http://www.ci.moscow.id.us/" target="_blank">www.ci.moscow.id.us</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:28.0pt">PRESS RELEASE</span></b><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b>City Accepting Comments on Proposed Farmers Market Policies Regarding Animals in the Market and Friendship Square Space Allotment During Market Hours</b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><b> </b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><b>February 16, 2012 (Moscow, Idaho) –<a name="1358d0330ac61a48_1358ba0a48bb73e1_OLE_LINK4"></a><a name="1358d0330ac61a48_1358ba0a48bb73e1_OLE_LINK3"></a> </b>The City of Moscow is accepting comments on the currently proposed Farmers Market Policies, located at <span style="background:yellow"><a href="http://www.ci.moscow.id.us/art/fm/market_feedback.aspx" target="_blank">www.ci.moscow.id.us/art/fm/market_feedback.aspx</a></span> or available in hardcopy at the City Clerk’s office in City Hall, 206 E Third Street, suite 303. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Policies regarding the Farmers Market were reviewed by the Administrative Committee on February 13, 2012 and forwarded to the City Council for consideration during their February 21 meeting with the exception of two proposals. Those proposals include policies entitled “Animals” – the proposed policy to limit the allowance of animals in the Market to service animals and “Promoters” – The process to manage the location used during Market hours for local arts, philanthropic, charitable, non-profit, social, and similar purposes to allow individuals and groups to share their message or opportunity. These two proposals will be considered by the Administrative Committee on February 27, 2012 at 4:30 p.m. in Council Chambers. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Those interested in providing comments regarding the two excluded proposals, “Animals” and “Promoters” to be considered by the Administrative Committee on February 27, may do so on the web at <span style="background:yellow"><a href="http://www.ci.moscow.id.us/art/fm/market_feedback.aspx" target="_blank">www.ci.moscow.id.us/art/fm/market_feedback.aspx</a></span> or in writing to the City Clerk Stephanie Kalasz at <a href="mailto:skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us" target="_blank">skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us</a>. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">The City of Moscow has developed a web page on the City of Moscow website (items are also available in hardcopy at the City Clerk’s office in City Hall, 206 E Third Street, suite 303) to provide citizens with the opportunity to review and comment on the information and proposed policies including: <u></u><u></u></p>
<ol start="1" type="1"><li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Market Policies to be considered by City Council on February 21; excluding the proposals of “Animals” and “Promoters”;<u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">
The proposed “Animals” and “Promoters” policies;<u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">A proposed map of the Farmers Market area that shows possible Friendship Square and Fountain Place spaces;<u></u><u></u></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">An explanation of the legal basis for proposed Friendship Square space allotment.<u></u><u></u></li></ol><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">For more information regarding the Farmers Market and the proposed policies, please contact Arts Director Kathleen Burns at <a href="tel:%28208%29%20883-7036" target="_blank">(208) 883-7036</a>. For inquiries regarding the legal basis for the proposed Friendship Square space allotment, please contact City Attorney Randall Fife at <a href="tel:%28208%29%20883-7005" target="_blank">(208) 883-7005</a>.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><b>###</b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><b> </b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Story Contacts</b><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Kathleen Burns, Arts Director Randy Fife, City Attorney<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<a href="tel:208.883.7036" target="_blank">208.883.7036</a> <a href="tel:208.883.7005" target="_blank">208.883.7005</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<a href="mailto:kburns@ci.moscow.id.us" target="_blank">kburns@ci.moscow.id.us</a> <a href="mailto:rfife@ci.moscow.id.us" target="_blank">rfife@ci.moscow.id.us</a> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt">The City of Moscow delivers quality municipal services while ensuring responsible use of resources. </span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt">We anticipate and meet the needs of our diverse population in order to build public trust and enhance a sense of community.</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.facebook.com/#%21/CityofMoscowIdaho" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;text-decoration:none"><img src="cid:image001.jpg@01CCED6B.18CD40D0" alt="Description: Facebook Email Small" border="0" height="96" width="47"></span></a><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span><a href="https://twitter.com/#%21/CityofMoscowId" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;text-decoration:none"><img src="cid:image002.jpg@01CCED6B.18CD40D0" alt="Description: Twitter Email Small" border="0" height="96" width="47"></span></a><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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=======================================================<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br><a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br><a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br>