<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:18pt"><div><span>Sunil,</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div> <font size="3"><span id="misspell-1"><span>Originally</span></span> occupying <span id="misspell-2"><span>Afghanistan</span></span> was one of the worst <span id="misspell-3"><span>decisions</span></span> ever in modern times. The only one that would be worse would be to leave it now.</font></div><div><font size="3"> </font></div><div><span><font size="3">I believe that support under the Carter administrator was little more than a paper dragon. Soviets invaded Dec. of 79, and Carter was gone 13 months later. Reagan was the real supporter of what he called the "freedom fighters". But I do agree that there is little difference between most Presidents foreign policy because they generally are not experts on all world affairs and
depend on <span id="misspell-1"><span>advisers</span></span> and the previous administration's policy. The differences are usually slight. </font></span></div><div><span></span><font size="3"> </font></div><div><span><font size="3">I disagree that the bloodshed caused by the withdrawal in <span id="misspell-2"><span>Afghanistan</span></span> would be our fault. We were the ones that created the bad situation in the country and the rise of the <span id="misspell-3"><span>tyrannical</span></span> government. It would also escalate violent terrorist action all over the world killing others and provide a safe <span id="misspell-4"><span>haven</span></span> for them, as they would know we fear entering the country and blowing a few of us up causes us to run not fight back. </font></span></div><div><span></span><font size="3"> </font></div><div><span><font size="3">The best way to fight people that terrorize people that don't agree with
their radical policies that violate even basic civil and human rights is to confront them. The best way to encourage this behavior is to allow it to occur by running and <span id="misspell-1"><span>capitulating</span></span> to there demands.</font></span></div><div><span></span><font size="3"> </font></div><div><span><font size="3">You are right about many things being wrong in our <span id="misspell-5"><span>involvement</span></span>. We have no clearly stated <span id="misspell-6"><span>strategy</span></span> or objective. We have placed no public limits on how long, how much money, or bloodshed, we are willing to endure. We also need to focus on reducing the number of civilian deaths we are responsible for directly through our military action. </font></span></div><div><span></span><font size="3"> </font></div><div><span><font size="3">Civil and human rights are important to me as well. Human Rights
Watch doesn't want these people in control. Seeing these men that burn woman for suspected <span id="misspell-7"><span>adultery</span></span>, quartering gay men, and giving men the right to legally beat, starve, trade, sell, rape and kill woman and children as property is something that I cannot stomach. Nobody should. It is one of the things I would be willing to end with the cost of all my resources and life. </font></span></div><div><span></span><font size="3"> </font></div><div><span><font size="3">Leaving <span id="misspell-1"><span>Afghanistan</span></span> will not end bloodshed, reduce costs, or increase violations of human rights. It will only increase it and move it around the world. Terrorists <span id="misspell-2"><span>aren't</span></span> going to stop bombing people because we leave <span id="misspell-3"><span>Afghanistan</span></span>. Their doing so is what brought us there. Vacating it will just give them
another place to plan and hide after another 911 which they will attempt again. </font></span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Donovan Arnold</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span></span> </div><div><span></span> </div><div><span></span> </div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="hr" contentEditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:52 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Obama foreign policy, was: Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br> </font> </div> <br>
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Donovan,<br><br>Support for the <span id="misspell-4" class="mark">Mujahideen</span> started under Jimmy Carter, but perhaps that just goes to illustrate how much the parties have in common. As for needless murder and suffering, right now we're one of the major causes for it in Afghanistan. It may go on without us, likely will, but we won't be the direct cause of it, and directly responsible for it if we leave. <br><br>What does it mean to 'tame' Afghanistan? (pretending for the moment that we have the right.) Doesn't it mean to kill enough of them until they give up fighting? Please, not in my name. I can't and won't support that. As long as we stay, they will continue to fight us.<br><br>What's <span id="misspell-5" class="mark">Pashtun</span> for Wolverines?<br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><div id="yiv615314266SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size:
0px;" class="hr" contentEditable="false" readonly="true"></div>Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 07:38:05 -0800<br>From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Obama foreign policy, was: Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br><br><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span>Sunil,</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>I agree with you that there will be more bloodshed if we get out. But that is why I think we should stay in. Allowing for needless the murder and suffering of millions of innocents and the potential to let nuclear weapons fall into the hands of people that would use them is a bad idea to me. That is a geopolitical <span id="yiv615314266ecxmisspell-1" class="yiv615314266mark"><span id="misspell-8" class="mark">hotspot</span></span> for many
reasons that will explode in the face of about 50 countries if there is not a stabilizing force in the region. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Wise words from a wise man that are too often ignored. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Every land was unsuccessfully occupied until it was. I think the only reason why the Soviet Union was
unable to tame Afghanistan was because the US was funding and arming them and the Soviet people weren't willing to pay the costs of <span id="yiv615314266ecxmisspell-2"><span>achieving</span></span> their objective. The Soviets were successfully defeating their enemies until Reagan got in on funding the future terrorists of the world. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Donovan Arnold</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="padding: 0px; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="yiv615314266hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> vision 2020
<vision2020@moscow.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:00 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Obama foreign policy, was: Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br> </font> </div> <br>
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Donovan,<br><br>I think we need to get out. No one has ever 'successfully' occupied Afghanistan, and we are no different. I think it's time to leave. I agree that there will be more bloodshed after we're gone, but we have that now.<br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><div id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><div style="padding: 0px; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="yiv615314266hr"></div>Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:21:57 -0800<br>From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Obama foreign policy, was: Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br><br><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span>Sunil,</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Sadly, what you say is
probably true. However, I don't know what choice a US President has but to maintain a <span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxmisspell-1"><span>presence</span></span> in <span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxmisspell-2"><span>Afghanistan</span></span>. I would think leaving there would result in more innocent blood being shed and global instability than staying. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>What is your solution? What policy do you think Obama should <span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxmisspell-3"><span>pursue</span></span>?</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Donovan Arnold</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="padding: 0px; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;"
class="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 16, 2012 2:47 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Vision2020] Obama foreign policy, was: Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br> </font> </div> <br>
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Donovan,<br><br>Obama might be better than Reagan and the two Bush's. I still think his foreign policy is awful, disgusting. He kept a campaign promise in escalating the war in Afghanistan, and there is only one place that will lead:<br><br>Hundreds of dead and wounded civilians, our troops killed (in far smaller numbers) and injured and traumatized in larger numbers, and failure.<br><br>Like the Soviets who failed at the same enterprise, we will not install a puppet government that stays in power. Like them, we will fail after killing many people. I could not support that under the last administration, and I can't support it now.<br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><div id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><div style="padding: 0px; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441hr"></div>Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 10:10:36 -0800<br>From:
donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br><br><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span>Nonetheless, Sunil, Obama has the best foreign policy than any other elected President in recent modern history or at least as good as any other, and certainly better than the Bush/Reagan era.</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Obama killed the people who attacked the US, including <span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-1" class="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="yiv615314266ecxmisspell-10" class="yiv615314266mark"><span id="misspell-17" class="mark">Osama</span></span></span> Bin <span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-2"
class="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="yiv615314266ecxmisspell-11" class="yiv615314266mark"><span id="misspell-18" class="mark">Laudin</span></span></span>. He didn't start any
wars he couldn't finish. And he never <span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-2">ordered</span> or funded foreign troops to kill innocent women and
children and burn their villages to the ground. Sadly, you cannot say that about most American Presidents. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>It is difficult to be too critical of a President's foreign policy in real time because we do not
know all the facts due to security and national interest reasons. It isn't like economic policy or other domestic issues where all the facts and information should and can be openly shared and debated. We can usually only judge a President in matters of foreign policy in only very basic terms such as if we are still here as a nation, is the loss of men and women unjustifiable, and are we <span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-3"><span>committing</span></span> too many or too little resources to the cause? </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Most overseas operations should be done in concert with other nations. However, swift action is sometimes needed and their isn't time to consult the committee when lives are in immediate danger. Mistakes, sadly, often can and do occur because of this. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Ron Raul in
contrast, has
written racist
articles in his
newspaper, is opposed to equal marriage rights for all US citizens, and opposes a woman's right to control her own body. So he has already been discredited as a civil liberties <span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-3"><span>activist</span></span>. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Donovan Arnold</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="padding: 0px; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> vision 2020
<vision2020@moscow.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 13, 2012 8:08 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br> </font> </div> <br>
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Just as Ron Paul should be under close scrutiny, so should Obama and the other candidates.<br><br>Does anyone support <span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-6" class="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="yiv615314266ecxmisspell-14" class="yiv615314266mark"><span id="misspell-21" class="mark">Obama's</span></span></span> position that our bombing of Libya was not an act of war and not subject to the War Powers Act? It's not war when we bomb a country to weak to shoot back?<br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><div id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxyiv1788766817SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><div style="padding: 0px; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463hr"></div>Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:36:50 -0800<br>From: rforce2003@yahoo.com<br>To: Vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br><br><div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div><span>Of course, Paul won't hesitate to curb a woman's
right to control her body: <br></span></div><div> http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/abortion/</div><div>guess it's not a civil liberty.</div><div><br></div><div>Ron Force<br>Moscow Idaho USA<br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="padding: 0px; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Paul <span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-8" class="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="yiv615314266ecxmisspell-16" class="yiv615314266mark"><span id="misspell-23" class="mark">Rumelhart</span></span></span> <godshatter@yahoo.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Vision 2020
<Vision2020@moscow.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 11,
2012 8:07 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Vision2020] Mitt
Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br> </font> </div> <br>
<br>Mitt Romney on civil liberties and the Patriot Act:<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjaXfwuGmxg&feature=related" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjaXfwuGmxg&feature=related</a><br><br><span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-9" class="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="yiv615314266ecxmisspell-17" class="yiv615314266mark"><span id="misspell-24" class="mark">tl</span></span></span>;<span id="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-10" class="yiv615314266ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="yiv615314266ecxmisspell-18" class="yiv615314266mark"><span id="misspell-25" class="mark">dr</span></span></span> version: "Whatever it takes to save me from terrorists!"<br><br>Compare and contrast that with Ron Paul's thoughts on the Patriot Act:<br><br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLqSlCZ27e0&feature=<span
id="yiv615314266ecxmisspell-19" class="yiv615314266mark"><span id="misspell-26" class="mark">relmfu</span></span><br><br>or this excerpt of a talk he gave at Georgetown University:<br><br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1ofsY1kzc4<br><br>Mitt Romney is more of the same. Ron Paul might well
be, too, for all I know, but at least there is a chance we can turn some of this around if he gets elected.<br><br>Paul<br><br>=======================================================<br>List
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</div><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the <span id="misspell-36" class="mark">Palouse</span> since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> <span id="misspell-37" class="mark">mailto</span>:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<br><br> </div> </div> </div></body></html>