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<br>
This reminds me that I wanted to start a discussion about the
left/right liberal/conservative metric.<br>
<br>
This is a good case of where this metric doesn't always hold. I was
reading some comments about this on a website I frequent, and one
metric that was suggested was an authoritarian/libertarian metric.
These terms have their own baggage, so let me describe what I mean.
Authoritarian in this case would mean a goal of centralizing more
functions and growing the Federal government. Libertarian in this
case would mean decentralizing government and decreasing the size of
the Federal Government.<br>
<br>
Tea Partiers would presumably fall in the libertarian camp, thus
they could be Libertarian Republicans or Libertarian Democrats.
This would mean that we shouldn't be shocked that a few of them are,
in fact, Democrats.<br>
<br>
I don't know if the two axis' are orthogonal or not.<br>
<br>
Note that it's in the best interest of those in positions of power
to promote authoritarianism. I think if we did an analysis, we'd
find that most incumbents are authoritarian, even if they talk about
smaller government. <br>
<br>
I fall into the libertarian camp, as defined above, more or less.
Some things should be centralized, or at least coordinated
centrally, but many of them should be left to the individual States,
or dropped altogether.<br>
<br>
I see it as those who want to be protected and those who want to
live with fewer restrictions, even if dangerously. Me, I'd rather
die on my feet than live on my knees.<br>
<br>
What do you guys think?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 01/17/2012 02:11 PM, Ron Force wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1326838278.927.YahooMailNeo@web46110.mail.sp1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255); font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;
font-size: 12pt;">
<div><span>Hard to imagine Tea Partiers crossing over since
polls have found they're just the conservative Republican
base with another name:</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div id="content_start" class="headings">
<div class="headingsi">
<div class="date">July 2, 2010</div>
<h1><span>Tea Party Supporters Overlap Republican Base</span></h1>
<h2><span>Eight out of 10 Tea Party supporters are
Republicans</span></h2>
<div class="authorDisplayLine1">by Frank Newport</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>PRINCETON, NJ -- There is significant overlap between
Americans who identify as supporters of the Tea Party movement
and those who identify as conservative Republicans. Their
similar ideological makeup and views suggest that the Tea
Party movement is more a rebranding of core Republicanism than
a new or distinct entity on the American political scene...</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/141098/tea-party-supporters-overlap-republican-base.aspx">http://www.gallup.com/poll/141098/tea-party-supporters-overlap-republican-base.aspx</a><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ron Force<br>
Moscow Idaho USA<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;
font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;
font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
Jay Borden <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jborden@datawedge.com"><jborden@datawedge.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Joe
Campbell <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><philosopher.joe@gmail.com></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:52 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Vision2020] hard to imagine<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
<div id="yiv403356947">
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<div class="yiv403356947WordSection1">
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Well…
it amazes me how my posts are either too simple
and straight forward… or too long for you to give
your attention to.</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
was just pointing out that based on what I saw,
this wasn’t some sort of a landslide in process,
or that “the times they are ‘a changin” (to
loosely quote the end of Keely’s post)… if you
look at the web site that was referenced, (not
just the web site that WROTE about it), it turns
out it’s just one or two folks that put up a few
blog posts. </span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If
you want to use the same concept as a definition
of “extreme”, then it’s worth noting the domains “<a
moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
href="http://hippiesforgingrich.com">hippiesforgingrich.com</a>”
and “<a moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
href="http://99percentersforromney.com">99percentersforromney.com</a>”
are still up for grabs. Statistically, based upon
the fact that NO ONE has put up a web site with
these topics, these points of view could be
considered even more extreme.</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
have posted before that having an extreme
viewpoint is relative to your position. If you’re
an Obama supporter, then anything to the right is
extreme. If you’re a Ron Paul supporter, then
anything to the left is extreme. </span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If
you’re a [true] moderate, then anything on both
ends is extreme. </span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If
you want to find middle ground, then BOTH ends of
the bell-curve have to agree to meet in the
middle. Anything less, and you’ve got what we
have now.</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Jay</span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
</span></div>
<div style="border-right: medium none; border-width:
1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none;
border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color
-moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"sans-serif";"> Joe Campbell
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 17, 2012 6:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jay Borden<br>
<b>Cc:</b> keely emerinemix;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] hard to imagine</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">The fact below is not
telling of the extreme nature of the Tea Party, Jay?
Likely there would be more participants on a Jews
for Hitler blog. It amazes me that you make this
remark as if it were something to be proud of. I
fear for the well being of our country given this
level of divisiveness. How can we reach the kind of
political compromise that will allow us to work
together and actually solve our problems? This is
not a rhetorical question; I'm genuinely anxious to
know what you think. How do we find the middle
ground given the political climate?</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal">On Mon, Jan 16,
2012 at 10:03 PM, Jay Borden <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:jborden@datawedge.com"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:jborden@datawedge.com">jborden@datawedge.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Well... the “<a
moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
href="http://teapartyforObama.com">teapartyforObama.com</a>”
web site has a total of 5 [blog?] posts from
a total of 2 people… since July 4<sup>th</sup>
of last year.</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">So… I wouldn’t exactly call this a
stampede.</span></div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"> </span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Jay</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border-right: medium none;
border-width: 1pt medium medium;
border-style: solid none none; border-color:
rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color
-moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"sans-serif";"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>keely emerinemix<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 16, 2012
9:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Vision2020] hard to
imagine</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""> </div>
<div>
<div class="yiv403356947MsoNormal"
style=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "sans-serif";">You
know, I'd love it if this were true,
or if it represented a truly
significant shift in voter thinking --
it may well be legitimate, but no less
unbelievable:<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/16/the-tea-party-for-obama/">http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/16/the-tea-party-for-obama/</a><br>
<br>
Yep. Some self-identified Tea Party
activists -- "self identified"
probably because their Tea Party
brethren wouldn't welcome them into
the fold -- evidently have seen the
light. <br>
<br>
Perhaps this is ultimate proof that
even those you'd expect to embrace one
of the GOP presidential candidates are
becoming aware that not a one of them,
now that Huntsman is out, deserves
their support, much less even five
more minutes in the spotlight. Still,
I think "gobsmacked" describes what I
felt after seeing this. <br>
<br>
Well, Bob Dylan had it right. The
times, they are a'changin' . . . <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:
"sans-serif"; color:
rgb(128, 100, 162);">Keely<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com">www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<pre wrap="">
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