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Donovan,<br><br>Support for the Mujahideen started under Jimmy Carter, but perhaps that just goes to illustrate how much the parties have in common. As for needless murder and suffering, right now we're one of the major causes for it in Afghanistan. It may go on without us, likely will, but we won't be the direct cause of it, and directly responsible for it if we leave. <br><br>What does it mean to 'tame' Afghanistan? (pretending for the moment that we have the right.) Doesn't it mean to kill enough of them until they give up fighting? Please, not in my name. I can't and won't support that. As long as we stay, they will continue to fight us.<br><br>What's Pashtun for Wolverines?<br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 07:38:05 -0800<br>From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Obama foreign policy, was: Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br><br><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:18pt"><div><span>Sunil,</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>I agree with you that there will be more bloodshed if we get out. But that is why I think we should stay in. Allowing for needless the murder and suffering of millions of innocents and the potential to let nuclear weapons fall into the hands of people that would use them is a bad idea to me. That is a geopolitical <span id="ecxmisspell-1" class="mark">hotspot</span> for many reasons that will explode in the face of about 50 countries if there is not a stabilizing force in the region. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Wise words from a wise man that are too often ignored. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Every land was unsuccessfully occupied until it was. I think the only reason why the Soviet Union was
unable to tame Afghanistan was because the US was funding and arming them and the Soviet people weren't willing to pay the costs of <span id="ecxmisspell-2"><span>achieving</span></span> their objective. The Soviets were successfully defeating their enemies until Reagan got in on funding the future terrorists of the world. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Donovan Arnold</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:18pt"> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="padding:0px;height:0px;line-height:0;font-size:0px" class="hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:00 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Obama foreign policy, was: Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br> </font> </div> <br>
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Donovan,<br><br>I think we need to get out. No one has ever 'successfully' occupied Afghanistan, and we are no different. I think it's time to leave. I agree that there will be more bloodshed after we're gone, but we have that now.<br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><div id="ecxyiv767209441SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><div style="padding:0px;height:0px;line-height:0;font-size:0px" class="hr"></div>Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:21:57 -0800<br>From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Obama foreign policy, was: Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br><br><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:18pt;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><div><span>Sunil,</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Sadly, what you say is
probably true. However, I don't know what choice a US President has but to maintain a <span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxmisspell-1"><span>presence</span></span> in <span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxmisspell-2"><span>Afghanistan</span></span>. I would think leaving there would result in more innocent blood being shed and global instability than staying. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>What is your solution? What policy do you think Obama should <span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxmisspell-3"><span>pursue</span></span>?</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Donovan Arnold</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:18pt"> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="padding:0px;height:0px;line-height:0;font-size:0px" class="ecxyiv767209441hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 16, 2012 2:47 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [Vision2020] Obama foreign policy, was: Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br> </font> </div> <br>
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Donovan,<br><br>Obama might be better than Reagan and the two Bush's. I still think his foreign policy is awful, disgusting. He kept a campaign promise in escalating the war in Afghanistan, and there is only one place that will lead:<br><br>Hundreds of dead and wounded civilians, our troops killed (in far smaller numbers) and injured and traumatized in larger numbers, and failure.<br><br>Like the Soviets who failed at the same enterprise, we will not install a puppet government that stays in power. Like them, we will fail after killing many people. I could not support that under the last administration, and I can't support it now.<br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><div id="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><div style="padding:0px;height:0px;line-height:0;font-size:0px" class="ecxyiv767209441hr"></div>Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 10:10:36 -0800<br>From:
donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br><br><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:18pt;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><div><span>Nonetheless, Sunil, Obama has the best foreign policy than any other elected President in recent modern history or at least as good as any other, and certainly better than the Bush/Reagan era.</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Obama killed the people who attacked the US, including <span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-1" class="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="ecxmisspell-10" class="mark">Osama</span></span> Bin <span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-2" class="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="ecxmisspell-11" class="mark">Laudin</span></span>. He didn't start any
wars he couldn't finish. And he never <span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-2">ordered</span> or funded foreign troops to kill innocent women and
children and burn their villages to the ground. Sadly, you cannot say that about most American Presidents. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>It is difficult to be too critical of a President's foreign policy in real time because we do not
know all the facts due to security and national interest reasons. It isn't like economic policy or other domestic issues where all the facts and information should and can be openly shared and debated. We can usually only judge a President in matters of foreign policy in only very basic terms such as if we are still here as a nation, is the loss of men and women unjustifiable, and are we <span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-3"><span>committing</span></span> too many or too little resources to the cause? </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Most overseas operations should be done in concert with other nations. However, swift action is sometimes needed and their isn't time to consult the committee when lives are in immediate danger. Mistakes, sadly, often can and do occur because of this. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Ron Raul in contrast, has
written racist
articles in his
newspaper, is opposed to equal marriage rights for all US citizens, and opposes a woman's right to control her own body. So he has already been discredited as a civil liberties <span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-3"><span>activist</span></span>. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Donovan Arnold</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:18pt"> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="padding:0px;height:0px;line-height:0;font-size:0px" class="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> vision 2020
<vision2020@moscow.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 13, 2012 8:08 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br> </font> </div> <br>
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Just as Ron Paul should be under close scrutiny, so should Obama and the other candidates.<br><br>Does anyone support <span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-6" class="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="ecxmisspell-14" class="mark">Obama's</span></span> position that our bombing of Libya was not an act of war and not subject to the War Powers Act? It's not war when we bomb a country to weak to shoot back?<br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><div id="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxyiv1788766817SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><div style="padding:0px;height:0px;line-height:0;font-size:0px" class="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463hr"></div>Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:36:50 -0800<br>From: rforce2003@yahoo.com<br>To: Vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mitt Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br><br><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;background-color:rgb(255, 255,\00000d\00000a 255)"><div><span>Of course, Paul won't hesitate to curb a woman's
right to control her body: <br></span></div><div> http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/abortion/</div><div>guess it's not a civil liberty.</div><div><br></div><div>Ron Force<br>Moscow Idaho USA<br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="padding:0px;height:0px;line-height:0;font-size:0px" class="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Paul <span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-8" class="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="ecxmisspell-16" class="mark">Rumelhart</span></span> <godshatter@yahoo.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Vision 2020 <Vision2020@moscow.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 11,
2012 8:07 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [Vision2020] Mitt
Romney vs. Ron Paul on civil liberties<br> </font> </div> <br>
<br>Mitt Romney on civil liberties and the Patriot Act:<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjaXfwuGmxg&feature=related" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjaXfwuGmxg&feature=related</a><br><br><span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-9" class="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="ecxmisspell-17" class="mark">tl</span></span>;<span id="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463ecxmisspell-10" class="ecxyiv767209441ecxyiv1130938463mark"><span id="ecxmisspell-18" class="mark">dr</span></span> version: "Whatever it takes to save me from terrorists!"<br><br>Compare and contrast that with Ron Paul's thoughts on the Patriot Act:<br><br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLqSlCZ27e0&feature=<span id="ecxmisspell-19" class="mark">relmfu</span><br><br>or this excerpt of a talk he gave at Georgetown University:<br><br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1ofsY1kzc4<br><br>Mitt Romney is more of the same. Ron Paul might well
be, too, for all I know, but at least there is a chance we can turn some of this around if he gets elected.<br><br>Paul<br><br>=======================================================<br>List
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