<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style></head>
<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>
Paul,<br><br>I don't think the Tea Partiers are libertarian; I think they're part of the Republican base, as Ron said earlier today.<br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 18:12:02 -0800<br>From: godshatter@yahoo.com<br>To: rforce2003@yahoo.com<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] hard to imagine<br><br>

  
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=unicode">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft SafeHTML">
    
    <title></title>
  
  
    <br>
    This reminds me that I wanted to start a discussion about the
    left/right liberal/conservative metric.<br>
    <br>
    This is a good case of where this metric doesn't always hold.  I was
    reading some comments about this on a website I frequent, and one
    metric that was suggested was an authoritarian/libertarian metric. 
    These terms have their own baggage, so let me describe what I mean. 
    Authoritarian in this case would mean a goal of centralizing more
    functions and growing the Federal government.  Libertarian in this
    case would mean decentralizing government and decreasing the size of
    the Federal Government.<br>
    <br>
    Tea Partiers would presumably fall in the libertarian camp, thus
    they could be Libertarian Republicans or Libertarian Democrats. 
    This would mean that we shouldn't be shocked that a few of them are,
    in fact, Democrats.<br>
    <br>
    I don't know if the two axis' are orthogonal or not.<br>
    <br>
    Note that it's in the best interest of those in positions of power
    to promote authoritarianism.  I think if we did an analysis, we'd
    find that most incumbents are authoritarian, even if they talk about
    smaller government. <br>
    <br>
    I fall into the libertarian camp, as defined above, more or less. 
    Some things should be centralized, or at least coordinated
    centrally, but many of them should be left to the individual States,
    or dropped altogether.<br>
    <br>
    I see it as those who want to be protected and those who want to
    live with fewer restrictions, even if dangerously.  Me, I'd rather
    die on my feet than live on my knees.<br>
    <br>
    What do you guys think?<br>
    <br>
    Paul<br>
    <br>
    On 01/17/2012 02:11 PM, Ron Force wrote:
    <blockquote cite="mid:1326838278.927.YahooMailNeo@web46110.mail.sp1.yahoo.com">
      <div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);background-color:rgb(255, 255,\00000d\00000a        255);font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
        <div><span>Hard to imagine Tea Partiers crossing over since
            polls have found they're just the conservative Republican
            base with another name:</span></div>
        <div><br>
          <span></span></div>
        <div id="ecxcontent_start" class="ecxheadings">
          <div class="ecxheadingsi">
            <div class="ecxdate">July 2, 2010</div>
            <h1><span>Tea Party Supporters Overlap Republican Base</span></h1>
            <h2><span>Eight out of 10 Tea Party supporters are
                Republicans</span></h2>
            <div class="ecxauthorDisplayLine1">by Frank Newport</div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div>PRINCETON, NJ -- There is significant overlap between
          Americans who identify as supporters of the Tea Party movement
          and those who identify as conservative Republicans. Their
          similar ideological makeup and views suggest that the Tea
          Party movement is more a rebranding of core Republicanism than
          a new or distinct entity on the American political scene...</div>
        <div><a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/141098/tea-party-supporters-overlap-republican-base.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.gallup.com/poll/141098/tea-party-supporters-overlap-republican-base.aspx</a><br>
        </div>
        <div> </div>
        <div>Ron Force<br>
          Moscow Idaho USA<br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
          <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
            <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial">
                <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
                Jay Borden <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jborden@datawedge.com"><jborden@datawedge.com></a><br>
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Joe
                Campbell <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><philosopher.joe@gmail.com></a> <br>
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
                <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> <br>
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
                Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:52 AM<br>
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
                Re: [Vision2020] hard to imagine<br>
              </font> </div>
            <br>
            <div id="ecxyiv403356947">
              <style>
.ExternalClass #ecxyiv403356947  
 ecx_filtered #ecxyiv403356947
{font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
.ExternalClass ecx_filtered #ecxyiv403356947
{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
.ExternalClass ecx_filtered #ecxyiv403356947
{font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
.ExternalClass ecx_filtered #ecxyiv403356947
{font-family:Verdana;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
.ExternalClass #ecxyiv403356947  
#ecxyiv403356947 p.ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal, .ExternalClass #ecxyiv403356947 li.ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal, .ExternalClass #ecxyiv403356947 div.ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal
{margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"serif";}
.ExternalClass #ecxyiv403356947 a:link, .ExternalClass #ecxyiv403356947 span.ecxyiv403356947MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
.ExternalClass #ecxyiv403356947 a:visited, .ExternalClass #ecxyiv403356947 span.ecxyiv403356947MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
.ExternalClass #ecxyiv403356947 span.ecxyiv403356947EmailStyle17
{font-family:"sans-serif";color:#1F497D;}
.ExternalClass #ecxyiv403356947 .ecxyiv403356947MsoChpDefault
{;}
.ExternalClass ecx_filtered #ecxyiv403356947
{;}
.ExternalClass #ecxyiv403356947 div.ecxyiv403356947WordSection1
{;}

</style>
              <div>
                <div class="ecxyiv403356947WordSection1">
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Well…
                      it amazes me how my posts are either too simple
                      and straight forward… or too long for you to give
                      your attention to.</span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">
                       </span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">I
                      was just pointing out that based on what I saw,
                      this wasn’t some sort of a landslide in process,
                      or that “the times they are ‘a changin” (to
                      loosely quote the end of Keely’s post)… if you
                      look at the web site that was referenced, (not
                      just the web site that WROTE about it), it turns
                      out it’s just one or two folks that put up a few
                      blog posts.    </span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">
                       </span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">If
                      you want to use the same concept as a definition
                      of “extreme”, then it’s worth noting the domains “<a href="http://hippiesforgingrich.com" target="_blank">hippiesforgingrich.com</a>”
                      and “<a href="http://99percentersforromney.com" target="_blank">99percentersforromney.com</a>”
                      are still up for grabs.  Statistically, based upon
                      the fact that NO ONE has put up a web site with
                      these topics, these points of view could be
                      considered even more extreme.</span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">
                       </span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">I
                      have posted before that having an extreme
                      viewpoint is relative to your position.  If you’re
                      an Obama supporter, then anything to the right is
                      extreme.  If you’re a Ron Paul supporter, then
                      anything to the left is extreme.  </span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">
                       </span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">If
                      you’re a [true] moderate, then anything on both
                      ends is extreme. </span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">
                       </span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">If
                      you want to find middle ground, then BOTH ends of
                      the bell-curve have to agree to meet in the
                      middle.  Anything less, and you’ve got what we
                      have now.</span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">
                       </span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">
                       </span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Jay</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"></span></div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">
                       </span></div>
                  <div style="border-right:medium none;border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color\00000d\00000a                    -moz-use-text-color;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
                    <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"sans-serif""> Joe Campbell
                        [<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>] <br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 17, 2012 6:10 AM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> Jay Borden<br>
                        <b>Cc:</b> keely emerinemix;
                        <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] hard to imagine</span></div>
                  </div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal">  </div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">The fact below is not
                    telling of the extreme nature of the Tea Party, Jay?
                    Likely there would be more participants on a Jews
                    for Hitler blog. It amazes me that you make this
                    remark as if it were something to be proud of. I
                    fear for the well being of our country given this
                    level of divisiveness. How can we reach the kind of
                    political compromise that will allow us to work
                    together and actually solve our problems? This is
                    not a rhetorical question; I'm genuinely anxious to
                    know what you think. How do we find the middle
                    ground given the political climate?</div>
                  <div>
                    <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal">On Mon, Jan 16,
                      2012 at 10:03 PM, Jay Borden <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:jborden@datawedge.com">jborden@datawedge.com</a>>
                      wrote:</div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73,\00000d\00000a                            125)">Well... the “<a href="http://teapartyforObama.com" target="_blank">teapartyforObama.com</a>”
                            web site has a total of 5 [blog?] posts from
                            a total of 2 people… since July 4<sup>th</sup>
                            of last year.</span></div>
                        <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73,\00000d\00000a                            125)"> </span></div>
                        <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73,\00000d\00000a                            125)">So… I wouldn’t exactly call this a
                            stampede.</span></div>
                        <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73,\00000d\00000a                            125)"> </span></div>
                        <div>
                          <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73,\00000d\00000a                              125)">Jay</span></div>
                        </div>
                        <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73,\00000d\00000a                            125)"> </span></div>
                        <div>
                          <div style="border-right:medium none;border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color\00000d\00000a                            -moz-use-text-color;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
                            <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"sans-serif""> <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
                                [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]
                                <b>On Behalf Of </b>keely emerinemix<br>
                                <b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 16, 2012
                                9:23 PM<br>
                                <b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
                                <b>Subject:</b> [Vision2020] hard to
                                imagine</span></div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""> </div>
                            <div>
                              <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"sans-serif"">You
                                  know, I'd love it if this were true,
                                  or if it represented a truly
                                  significant shift in voter thinking --
                                  it may well be legitimate, but no less
                                  unbelievable:<br>
                                  <br>
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/16/the-tea-party-for-obama/" target="_blank">http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/16/the-tea-party-for-obama/</a><br>
                                  <br>
                                  Yep.  Some self-identified Tea Party
                                  activists -- "self identified"
                                  probably because their Tea Party
                                  brethren wouldn't welcome them into
                                  the fold -- evidently have seen the
                                  light.  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  Perhaps this is ultimate proof that
                                  even those you'd expect to embrace one
                                  of the GOP presidential candidates are
                                  becoming aware that not a one of them,
                                  now that Huntsman is out, deserves
                                  their support, much less even five
                                  more minutes in the spotlight.  Still,
                                  I think "gobsmacked" describes what I
                                  felt after seeing this. <br>
                                  <br>
                                  Well, Bob Dylan had it right.  The
                                  times, they are a'changin' . . . <br>
                                  <br>
                                </span><span style="font-family:"sans-serif";color:rgb(128, 100, 162)">Keely<br>
                                  <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com" target="_blank">www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</a></span></div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal"><br>
=======================================================<br>
                       List services made available by First Step
                      Internet,<br>
                       serving the communities of the Palouse since
                      1994.<br>
                                    <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
                               mailto:<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================</div>
                  </div>
                  <div class="ecxyiv403356947MsoNormal">  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            =======================================================<br>
            List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
            serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
                          <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
                      mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
            =======================================================<br>
            <br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <pre><fieldset class="ecxmimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a>
          <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  

<br>=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
=======================================================</div>                                       </div></body>
</html>