<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Donovan Arnold states:</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size: 24px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "><span>"The difference between me and you, is that I have a better understanding of the reality of the health care system than you do and that Obamacare will not solve any problems.</span><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Millions of people are in fact better off without health insurance, such as me. If I were to buy health insurance, it would cost me $450 a month because of an injury that I incurred at work. If forced to pay $450, I will have to live in a homeless shelter and I still won't have health care because I cannot afford the $10,000 <span id="misspell-1"><span>deductible</span></span> that I must also pay before the insurance kicks in."</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>And somehow you feel that Obamacare is worse than the scenario you outline above???</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>Another thing: What health insurance provider, on planet Earth, charges a $10,000 deductible???</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>Concerning your claim that "</span>Millions of people are in fact better off without health insurance . . . " . . . BULL SH*T!!! I challenge you, Donovan Arnold, to speak to some family members of hospital patients (those without health insurance) for a dose of serious reality, ok?</div></span><br><div>Seeya later, Moscow.</div><div><br></div><div>Tom Hansen</div><div>Spokane, Washington</div><div><br></div><div>"If not us, who?</div><div>If not now, when?"</div><div><br></div><div>- Unknown</div></div><div><br>On Jan 11, 2012, at 6:14 AM, Donovan Arnold <<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:18pt"><div><span>Joe,</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>I'm not trying to create a Utopian society. T</span><span>he difference between me and you, is that I have a better understanding of the reality of the health care system than you do and that Obamacare will not solve any problems.</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Millions of people are in fact better off without health insurance, such as me. If I were to buy health insurance, it would cost me $450 a month because of an injury that I incurred at work. If forced to pay $450, I will have to live in a homeless shelter and I still won't have health care because I cannot afford the $10,000 <span id="misspell-1"><span>deductible</span></span> that I must also pay before the insurance kicks in. One the other hand, I can get all kinds of
medical help and pay my medical bills if I budget $200 a month, which is what I do. I have catastrophic insurance, which is only $80 a month. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>So if I am forced to buy insurance, I will have to fork out $450, plus $200 to pay my medical bills which the insurance will not pay. That means I have to pay $650 instead of $280. That means Obamacare doesn't help me at all, you see. I also cannot afford to pay $650 a month for medical on what I make. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>If the government wants to tax me an extra $100-$300 a month and take care of my health costs like most western civilizations and Europe do, great--I am for that. But just mandating that I buy $450 of insurance which does nothing for me, instead of allowing me to spend my money on what I need, it will destroy me financially and ruin my
health. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>And linking health insurance to work is the dumbest thing to do ever with health care. When you are sick and injured you cannot work. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Donovan Arnold</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span></span> </div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="hr" contenteditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Joe Campbell <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Donovan Arnold
<<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> "Gier, Nicholas" <<a href="mailto:NGIER@uidaho.edu">NGIER@uidaho.edu</a>>; keely emerinemix <<a href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">kjajmix1@msn.com</a>>; "<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>>; "<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 11, 2012 4:45 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<br> </font> </div> <br>
<div id="yiv1610005581"><div><div>It does matter. It matters to those in the US who are not insured very much.</div><div><br></div><div>We both care about healthcare for the poor. The difference is that you want to create some Utopian system first and then do something about it. I'd rather do the best we can with the flawed system that we have. Not because I like the flawed system but because I'm a realist, not an idealist.<br><br><br></div><div><br>On Jan 11, 2012, at 3:06 AM, Donovan Arnold <<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com"><a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a></a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span>Keely,</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>The problem is that insurance
companies are about making as big of a return for stock holders as possible, not getting people well. Inviting greedy corporate lawyers and stockbrokers into the health care system is like letting a pack of hungry wolves loose in the operating room. The two just don't go together in an combination that results in a good outcome. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>US health care policy today is about maximizing return of investment not maximizing the health of people. Until that goal changes, it doesn't matter how you mix and match insurance, profit, and care. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Donovan Arnold</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="margin: 5px
0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="yiv1610005581hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> "Gier, Nicholas" <<a href="mailto:NGIER@uidaho.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:NGIER@uidaho.edu"><a href="mailto:NGIER@uidaho.edu">NGIER@uidaho.edu</a></a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> keely emerinemix <<a href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com"><a href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">kjajmix1@msn.com</a></a>>; <a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com"><a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a></a>; <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a></a>; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></a> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:58 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [Vision2020] Say What?<br> </font> </div> <br><div id="yiv1610005581">
<div>
<div><font size="2">Nice insights, Keeley. One more reason to should be a Town Crier.<br>
<br>
Nick<br>
<br>
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.<br>
<br>
-Greek proverb<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a></a> on behalf of keely emerinemix<br>
Sent: Tue 1/10/2012 2:05 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com"><a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a></a>; Contact - <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a></a>; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<br>
<br>
<br>
One problem with "firing" your health insurer is that, until <span id="yiv1610005581misspell-5" class="yiv1610005581mark">Obamacare</span>, any gap between that entity's coverage and the replacement coverage you find can automatically result in either your non-acceptance or your having to pay a higher premium for having come to the new company from "uninsured" status. And if you can find something you can afford among those companies that will accept you, you might find yourself delaying treatment for the initial medical problem because of an inability to afford the premiums or the deductibles and other out-of-pocket expenses. <br>
<br>
If I don't like my local <span id="yiv1610005581misspell-6" class="yiv1610005581mark">Conoco</span> station, I can easily "fire" them and go to <span id="yiv1610005581misspell-7" class="yiv1610005581mark">Cenex</span>. But only someone blissfully out of touch or callously unaffected would presume that "firing" <span id="yiv1610005581misspell-8" class="yiv1610005581mark">one's</span> health insurer is even possible at times, much less a simple case of "voting with your wallet."<br>
<br>
Keely<br>
<a href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com">www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</a></a><br>
<br>
<br>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 20:31:02 -0800<br>
From: <a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com"><a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a></a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<br>
To: <a href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com"><a href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">kjajmix1@msn.com</a></a>; <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a></a>; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></a><br>
<br>
Bad choice of words for Romney. I think what he meant was the he liked having the authority to decide who provides him services for health care. I have to agree, that it would be horrible not be able to have the power to dismiss a service provider that you don't like. Any football fan that has had Time Warner or Dish Network as a television provider would have to agree. Donovan Arnold<br>
From: keely emerinemix <<a href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com"><a href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">kjajmix1@msn.com</a></a>><br>
To: Tom Hansen <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a></a>>; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></a><br>
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 8:36 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Besides the <span id="yiv1610005581misspell-11" class="yiv1610005581mark">cringeworthiness</span> of Romney's words is the reality that "firing" <span id="yiv1610005581misspell-12" class="yiv1610005581mark">one's</span> health insurance company virtually guarantees great difficulty in finding another . . .<br>
<br>
Keely<br>
<a href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com">www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</a></a><br>
<br>
<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a></a><br>
> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 18:58:26 -0800<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></a><br>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Say What?<br>
><br>
> "I want individuals to have their own insurance. That means the insurance company will have an incentive to keep you healthy. It also means if you don't like what they do, you can fire them. I like being able to fire people that provide services to me."<br>
><br>
> - Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney (January 9,<br>
2012)<br>
><br>
> Video courtesy of the Associated Press.<br>
> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBfWB64iHAs" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBfWB64iHAs">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBfWB64iHAs</a></a><br>
><br>
> --------------------<br>
><br>
> This video is going to get lots of mileage over the next few weeks.<br>
><br>
> <span id="yiv1610005581misspell-13" class="yiv1610005581mark">Seeya</span> later, Moscow.<br>
><br>
> Tom Hansen<br>
> Spokane, Washington<br>
><br>
> "If not us, who?<br>
> If not now, when?"<br>
><br>
> - Unknown<br>
><br>
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</div><br><br> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></a></span><br><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></a></span><br><span>=======================================================</span></div></blockquote></div></div><br><br> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote></body></html>