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Waiyne,<br><br>I said 'currently' because right now, Obama would end up leaving gay marriage to the states, as he does not yet support it. Once he does (as I expect him to eventually) then his position will be different.<br><br>Ron Paul's position is bigoted, I think. Obama's is cowardly, as he's still afraid to lose bigots' votes. The 'I support civil unions but not gay marriage' position is a silly split-the-baby attempt to placate both sides. Gay rights is the only place I see Obama behaving like a progressive, and I think he and his team have decided it won't hurt him; I think it's a bone they've decided they can throw the left.<br><br>But here we are, again discussing anything but Obama's foreign policies again.<br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: deco@moscow.com<br>To: Vision2020@moscow.com<br>Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 23:00:45 -0800<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism<br><br>
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<div><font face="Verdana">Their positions are not quite the same.</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana"><a title="http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profiles/House/Texas/Ron_Paul/Views/Gay_Marriage/
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profiles/House/Texas/Ron_Paul/Views/Gay_Marriage/" target="_blank">http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profiles/House/Texas/Ron_Paul/Views/Gay_Marriage/</a></font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana"><a title="http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/12/obama-the-courts-and-gay-marriage.html
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/12/obama-the-courts-and-gay-marriage.html" target="_blank">http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/12/obama-the-courts-and-gay-marriage.html</a></font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana">Paul's mind is made up.</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana">Obama says his is still open.</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana">w.</font></div>
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<div style="font-color:black"><b>From:</b> <a title="sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">Sunil Ramalingam</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 01, 2012 7:30 PM</div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision 2020</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and
Racism</div></div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">Neither of us were talking about DADT, we were talking about their
positions on gay marriage, and as far as I know, Obama is not currently in favor
of gay marriage. He has come out against the Defense of Marriage Act, but that
would simply leave things to each state, which I believe is Paul's
position.<br><br>Sunil<br><br>
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CC: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism<br>Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 17:54:18
-0800<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<br><br>
<div>Obama repealed "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Ron Paul stated more than once, during the debates, that he would not
repeal DADT.</div>
<div><br>
<div>Seeya later, Moscow.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Spokane, Washington</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>"If not us, who?</div>
<div>If not now, when?"</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>- Unknown</div></div>
<div><br>On Jan 1, 2012, at 5:47 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br><br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">So currently is his position any different than Obama's? Is the
only difference that Obama's position is 'evolving,' perhaps with the benefit
of polling?<br><br>Sunil<br><br>
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From: <a href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Date: Sun, 1
Jan 2012 14:25:02 -0800<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and
Racism<br><br>
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<div><font face="Verdana">Kelly,</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana">Here in a nutshell is Ron Paul's position on gay
marriage:</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana">As a lifelong Christian, he is personally against
it. He is against any federal legislation on this issue, but for
allowing each state to decide the issue themselves.</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana">Needless to say, besides most likely leading to the
denial of gays to marry in many states, the legal morasses created by allowing
gay marriage in some states and not allowing it or not recognizing it in other
states are horrifying to contemplate.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> <font face="Verdana">w.</font></div>
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<div><br></div>
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<div style="font-color:black"><b>From:</b> <a title="kjajmix1@msn.com" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:14 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"></a><a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>
</div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and
Racism</div></div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">Being a racist doesn't mean he's wrong on these issues, Sunil --
but it means that, as Ron Paul (if he is, in fact, a racist), he should be
applauded for those views he holds that are correct and challenged on any that
you, I, or anyone else disagrees with. It doesn't mean he ought to run
for office, or that we ought to vote for him.<br><br>There are plenty of
people, I imagine, who are right about the issues you mention below who aren't
bigots, and who -- perhaps more germane to the conversation -- wouldn't gut
the social services that make this country not only habitable (imperfect and
imperfectly delivered as they are), but moral. I think you and I see the
defense/national security issues fairly similarly, and we likely also applaud
Paul's views on legalizing marijuana, gay marriage, and maybe a couple of
other issues. Nonetheless, even those areas on which I agree with Paul
-- the ones I just mentioned and the ones you did -- aren't enough for me
either to vote for him, or overlook what at least the most fervent Paul
supporter would acknowledge was carelessness in letting bigots crank out his
newsletter. <br><br>The cumulative effect of Paul's economic and some of
his social policies will harm more people -- people already marginalized and
suffering -- than the hundreds of thousands this and the previous war-courting
administrations have. Do I take any comfort in that?
<br><br>No. Not at all. But I have to vote for the man who seems
to have more, better answers than the one who has one or two good ones.
And I can't afford to combine the worst of both Obama and Paul by risking the
horror of, say, a Perry or Bachmann presidency.<br><br>Thanks,
Sunil.<br><br><font color="#8064a2"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><font face="Verdana">Keely<br><a href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com" target="_blank">www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</a><br></font></font></font><br><br>
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From: <a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"></a><a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a><br>CC:
<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Date: Sat, 31
Dec 2011 18:12:36 -0800<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and
Racism<br><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying
he is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed for a
minute.<br><br>Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the
defense budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the
Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?<br><br>What say you,
Keely, Wayne, Saundra, Tom?<br><br>Sunil<br><br>
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Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800<br>From: <a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"></a><a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</a><br>CC: <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism<br><br><br>He has admitted to putting
out an investment newsletter that (as far as I can tell) was not one of the
newsletters that printed the racist comments. It had all sorts of
conspiracy theories about what will happen to people trying to deal in large
amounts of cash, most of which have come true - just not in the way he
thought. Try taking a large pile of cash through airport security and
see how well that goes.<br><br>Another distraction attempt, supposedly a
smoking gun, apparently succeeds in its goals. Or maybe this is just
jumping on the bandwagon, since it is the Daily Mail, after
all.<br><br>Paul<br><br>On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:1A1F05A50A4B444E81522A00E4ED7BC8@cobra">
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">See:</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2"><a title="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html
CTRL
+ Click to follow link" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html" target="_blank">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html</a></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself
acknowledging the letters, etc.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">All javascript scripts must be allowed
in order to see the whole article including the videos.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">w.</font></div>
<div style="font:10pt Tahoma">
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="kjajmix1@msn.com" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and
Racism</div></div></div>
<div><br></div><br>Does it matter whether or not the allegations are
true? Or do we just call them out anyway?<br><br>Here is an article
from CBS News about the newsletters: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/" target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/</a><br><br>The
article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue: <br><br>"When I was
out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was
published under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to
the product," he said. "For over a decade, I have publicly taken moral
responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my
name."<br><br>I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something
he might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman is
losing to Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign on a strong
showing there.<br><br>I got that last bit from this article: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/" target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/</a><br><br>And
once again, this is only out there in order to distract us. These
people could care less if it's even true. It's just
convenient.<br><br>Paul<br><br>On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix
wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:COL105-W1214BE5FC29BFEADCD095282930@phx.gbl">
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<div dir="ltr">I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or
even the wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the slightest apparent
provocation. That said, I think it's imperative that legitimate
indications that an individual's views on race/gender/class/civil
rights/culture are bigoted be called out, examined, and condemned -- and I
believe that the text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an example.
<br><br><font color="#8064a2"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><font face="Verdana">Keely<br><a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com" target="_blank">www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</a><br></font></font></font><br><br>
<div>
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Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism<br>Date: Sat, 31 Dec
2011 14:41:13 -0800<br>From: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jborden@datawedge.com"></a><a href="mailto:jborden@datawedge.com">jborden@datawedge.com</a><br>To: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com"></a><a href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">kjajmix1@msn.com</a>; <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm"></a><a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a>; <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br><br>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt">I’m
not *<b>defending</b>* racism, I’m commenting on the mere finger-pointing
and accusations being so charged that it’s a nuclear weapon in a political
arsenal. </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt">It’s
used as a tool for distraction, and hence, theatrics. (And, unless I
missed the mark, perhaps Mr. Rumelhart’s point).</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt">Insert
story of “crying wolf”.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt"></span> </p>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt">Jay</span></p></div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"></p></div></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote>
<blockquote>
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