<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>I don't think that the comments on here are any different than that of what is posted in the editorials in a newspaper. They are the <span id="misspell-0"><span>opinions</span></span> of the posters, not the publisher. Who the posters are isn't always known. Anyone can claim to be anyone on here. Many people, if not most, have had their identities faked and posted on here. Most people take what is posted on V2020 or any <span id="misspell-1"><span>Internet</span></span> forum with not only a grain of salt, but more like with a couple of tons of it. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>It is actually very difficult to prove libel and slander. You have to prove the identity of the poster, and that the information on the site was harmful, and how it harmed them. Hard to do because not many
people take serious anything on a forum like V2020. I could be wrong of course, but that is my opinion. I don't believe anything about people just because it is on one website, even a newspaper. I would suspect most people are the same<var id="yui-ie-cursor"></var>. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Donovan Arnold</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="hr" contentEditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> ML394 <ml394@hushmail.com> <br><b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> "vision2020@moscow.com" <vision2020@moscow.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:51 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet<br> </font> <br>
<div id="yiv1700277463">
<title></title>
<div>
<br>
I'm not competent to judge whether or not this constitutes slander,
but I will say that certain people get beat up on this list far too
often for my tastes. A warning that slander is a possibility is a
good warning for us to have on this list, in my opinion. Each one
of us, myself included, could treat others with a little more
respect even if they disagree with us politically or rub us the
wrong way or represent to us all that is evil in the world.<br>
<br>
I don't, however, think it's First Step's responsibility to police
us. We are all posting messages that we know are accessible
world-wide, it's our responsibility to make sure that we follow the
applicable laws when doing so.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 11/30/2011 04:35 PM, ML394 wrote:
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px;">Here's
a good one:<br>
http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2011-May/076264.html<br>
<br>
It's loaded with gossip, nothing much substantiated here. <br>
<br>
Gossip when done face to face is one thing, but done on the
internet and leaving a permanent mark against a person's
reputation is internet slander.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Paul Rumelhart
<a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></a> wrote:
<blockquote style="padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 10px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">Can you point me to an
example of slander being sent to the Viz?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: ML394 <a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com"><ml394@hushmail.com></a><br>
To: Darrell Keim <a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:keim153@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:keim153@gmail.com"><keim153@gmail.com></a>;
<a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> <br>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:13 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet<br>
<br>
<br>
Darrell:<br>
<br>
This is a very good, thoughtful response, but it is not
accurate: Most online bulletin boards, Google groups and
online forums do not promote posts which slander real people.
<br>
<br>
Here's the distinction: If someone on this forum says, "ML394
is a criminal," then that's not slander. But if someone says,
"BILL MOORE is a thief," that is actually slander. And the
hosting company which promotes that slander become liable in a
court of law for the content of its posts.<br>
<br>
If a hosting company makes its forum posts private, however,
then it is not legally responsible for slanderous content.<br>
<br>
Again, look it up.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Darrell Keim
<a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:keim153@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:keim153@gmail.com"><keim153@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
I've been familiar with 21st century privacy (or, more
specifically the<br>
>lack thereof) for some time, ML394. My snarky response was
because I find<br>
>it quite ridiculous that anyone would be upset that
remarks made on a<br>
>public board might be read by-gasp!-the public.<br>
><br>
>UI see no need for 1st Step to change how V2020 works.
Anyone making a<br>
>judgement solely off what is written here would be
extremely foolish.<br>
><br>
>I don't think 1st Step has anything to fear RE slander.
There are untold<br>
>public bulletin boards, etc. where nasty comments are made
on a daily<br>
>basis. If there was money to be made sueing them, I'm sure
lawyers would<br>
>be doing so. Capitalism is highly efficient in that
regard!<br>
><br>
>Anyone who wants to look up what I have written on a
public forum is free<br>
>to do so. That is why I attach my name to my musings.<br>
><br>
>Glad to see you remember my name from the Chamber. Your
memory is<br>
>excellent, as I left them some time ago. In fact they are
looking for<br>
>another director, again, even as you read this.<br>
><br>
>On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:48 PM, ML394
<a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com"><ml394@hushmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Darrell:<br>
>><br>
>> I'm glad that you're getting educated about 21st
century privacy. And I<br>
>> meant it when I said that I heard First Step Internet
is going out of<br>
>> business. A lawsuit for slander could put any small
company like First<br>
>> Step Internet out of business.<br>
>><br>
>> Also, I didn't know that the Moscow Chamber of
Commerce hires snarky staff<br>
>> members like yourself. But that's good for business,
right? But when the<br>
>> Moscow chamber is promoting our town, a quick search
through the 2020 posts<br>
>> can find out what you have to say, how sarcastic you
are to others. "When<br>
>> did 7th graders take over the chamber of commerce?"
will be the big<br>
>> question businesses ask when they decide on taking
their business elsewhere.<br>
>><br>
>> Good job, darrell.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Darrell
Keim <<br>
>> <a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:keim153@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:keim153@gmail.com">keim153@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Ya mean to say that people can read the things I writ
and are written 'bout<br>
>> me on a public board!?!<br>
>><br>
>> Well, shucks. I am mighty glad you took this
courageous anonymous stand,<br>
>> ML394!<br>
>><br>
>> *Shame* on First Step for providing us with a
valuable free service, and<br>
>> not doing it how y'all think is *proper.*<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> It is good of you to eddycate us po' innocent rubes
about the danger of<br>
>> postings on the internut.<br>
>><br>
>> And you were so clever by starting with your own fake
post about First Step<br>
>> to make your point!<br>
>><br>
>> I sure hope your occupation turns out as well as the
others!<br>
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:11 PM, ML394
<a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com"><ml394@hushmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > My name is John Q. Public. My name is the name
of anyone who gets talked<br>
>> > about on this forum and has their reputation
smeared on the search<br>
>> > engines. My name is your name, Tom. My name is
OCCUPY VISION 2020, taking<br>
>> > a stand against First Step Internet for
promoting slanderous comments on<br>
>> > the internet and taking no responsibility for
the harm that does to real<br>
>> > people.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The truth is that corporations like First Step
Internet need to be held<br>
>> > accountable for their actions and the use of its
online technology to<br>
>> allow<br>
>> > anonymous smears of real people.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The Vision 2020 policy of having all posts
tracked by search engines<br>
>> needs<br>
>> > to be changed. First Step Internet can make sure
that no search engines<br>
>> > track the forum posts. Why do people on the
internet need to have access<br>
>> > to the local posts on the forum? That's not
freedom, it is slander with<br>
>> > technology.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Change the policy. Freedom of speech within the
forum is fine, but having<br>
>> > the freedom to slander others across the
internet should not be allowed<br>
>> by<br>
>> > First Step Internet. All First Step has to do is
simply make the forum's<br>
>> > posts untrackable by search engines. Nothing
else on the forum would<br>
>> > change.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Tom
Hansen <<br>
>> <a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>
>> > wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > And your name is . . . ?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Seeya round town, Moscow.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Tom Hansen<br>
>> > Moscow, Idaho<br>
>> ><br>
>> > "If not us, who?<br>
>> > If not now, when?"<br>
>> ><br>
>> > - Unknown<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:16 PM, "ML394"
<a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com"><ml394@hushmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > > What I heard about First Step Internet is
this:<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > Due to the way the forum posts are being
tracked by Google these days,<br>
>> > anyone can come on this forum and claim to be a
person who they are not.<br>
>> > Anyone can say anything about someone else (even
slander them) and those<br>
>> > posts will be tracked by Google and connected to
the name of the<br>
>> slandered<br>
>> > person.<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > In fact, most of the email addresses used
to post to this forum could<br>
>> > never be tracked or traced to the name on the
forum post. There is no<br>
>> easy<br>
>> > way to prove that any of the forum members are
who they claim to be.<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > So, if someone were to claim on this forum
to be BILL MOORE, who loves<br>
>> > to steal money, commit crimes and wants others
to share in his life of<br>
>> > self-debasement, there would be no way to prove
that BILL MOORE did not<br>
>> > author the post. And yet the slander remains
online. And we all know that<br>
>> > Bill Moore of First Step Internet is hardly a
degenerate. He is one of<br>
>> the<br>
>> > most upstanding people in the area, a man who
stands for freedom of<br>
>> speech<br>
>> > and the freedom to slander people, too.<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > First Step Internet assumes no liability
for the posts on this forum,<br>
>> > but according to the Electronic Frontier
Foundation hosting a forum which<br>
>> > enables members to slander people by name and
not just by their screen<br>
>> name<br>
>> > creates a legal liability for the hosting
company. In this case, First<br>
>> Step<br>
>> > Internet is legally responsible for actually
promoting the Vision 2020<br>
>> > forum on Google and other search engines. First
Step Internet is legally<br>
>> > responsible for the slander its members write
about others.<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > The way I look at it, the longer First Step
Internet lets Google track<br>
>> > the slanderous comments that have been made on
the forum the greater the<br>
>> > liability. And First Step Internet would be out
of business quickly.<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > While I appreciate how important First Step
Internet has been in the<br>
>> > development of government-funded, rural internet
access and the<br>
>> development<br>
>> > of Vision 2020, I am certain that First Step
Internet would be better off<br>
>> > (from a legal standpoint) making Vision 2020 a
private forum that<br>
>> promotes<br>
>> > free speech but does not allow search engines to
track the content of its<br>
>> > posts.<br>
>> > >
=======================================================<br>
>> > > List services made available by First Step
Internet,<br>
>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse
since 1994.<br>
>> > > http://www.fsr.net<br>
>> > > <a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>> > >
=======================================================<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >
=======================================================<br>
>> > List services made available by First Step
Internet,<br>
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994.<br>
>> > <a href="http://www.fsr.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
>> > <a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>> >
=======================================================<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
<a class="yiv1700277463moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================</blockquote>
</span>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<br><br> </div> </div> </div></body></html>