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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>What I find appalling in this discussion is the
apparent lack of historical and contemporary knowledge of the importance and the
results that have proceeded from the right of free expression from letters to
the editor to demonstrations lasting years and involving millions of people in
this country.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Civil rights, environmental issues, anti-war
issues, poverty issues, pro/anti-abortion issues, etc allow citizens the
right and the opportunity to express their opinions and feelings. It
should be clear to all but the most ignorant and arrogant that demonstrations in
these areas have influenced public policy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>The right of free expression is one of the most
important we have: It allows us to struggle, sometimes haltingly and
erroneously, towards the truth and towards finding values that make this a more
just and habitable planet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>We pay taxes for police and allied services, one
of these services is protect our constitutional rights, including the right
of free expression. Except for a very nominal fees for parades and larger
demonstration permits whose purpose would be to inform policing
agencies and others that their services like enforcement, traffic control, etc
may be needed, I am opposed to requiring citizens to pay fees, payments, and/or
make other concessions of any legal kind simply to exercise a fundamental
and very important constitutional right.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Dissent (and agreement) has been a very important
part of the history of this country. I hope we do not try to stifle this
dissent by making it only the province of those able to pay well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>I also find it ironic and hypocritical, but not
surprising, that the conservatives like Crabtree, Borden, and Rumelhart* are the
anti-free expression advocates on this list [along with pathetic Henry Johnson
in the <EM>DN</EM>]. [*Rumelhart claims not to be a conservative, but
almost all his posts here espouse positions touted by
conservatives.]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>I understand the position of the MPD to take
steps to prevent serious consequences of someone's breaking the law. That
is part of their duties.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>It's the little Napoleans/Hitlers who wish to
stifle dissent by making the dissenters pay to express their feelings that pose
the greatest threat to free expression.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Two years ago, I sat in traffic on Washington
between 5th and 4th while a large group of tea partiers crossed Washington,
most of them not in the crosswalks and hold up traffic a few
minutes. I do not agree completely with the tea party's
analysis of the nation's problems and with their solutions of them -- I
think many of them are ill-informed and delusional -- but I applaud their
efforts to dissent in a public manner, even if a few minor laws were
broken. I would have been very vocal and combative if someone had
suggested that they would pay for whatever extra police services might be
needed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Having been in on efforts to draft legislation to
make megaload permiting more open, with easier to appeal provisions, to mitigate
the inconvenience to other highway users and businesses, and to
recover the cost of issuing the permits and the costs of usage above normal
being picked up by the applicants, I can say that intense lobbying by big oil
and others certainly tilted the playing field in their favor and no such
legislation had a chance. Money does talk, sometimes in very devious ways,
both statewide and in Moscow.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>w.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana></FONT><FONT face=Verdana></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:jborden@datawedge.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:jborden@datawedge.com">Jay Borden</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 02, 2011 9:00 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</A> ; <A
title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A
title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] who pays for Megaload
cops?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px">Personally, I find much of
this lunacy hilarious.<BR><BR>Subscribers here utilize the V20 service to help
organize/update on protester activity... <BR><BR>... which forces additional
police response as a result of successful organized protests....<BR><BR>...
which causes the very same V20 crowd to blame Exxon for not picking up the
tab....<BR><BR>...... for the additional police.... <BR><BR>... to handle the
additional protesters.<BR><BR><slow clap><BR><BR>Bravo folks....
bravo.<BR><BR>Jay<BR><BR><FONT color=#333333><I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><FONT face=sans-serif>Sent via DROID on Verizon
Wireless<BR></FONT></SPAN></I></FONT></DIV><BR>-----Original message-----<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 14px"><B>From: </B>Paul
Rumelhart <<A
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</A>><B><BR>To:
</B>Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com><B><BR>Cc:
</B>vision2020 <vision2020@moscow.com><B><BR>Sent: </B>Sat, Sep 3, 2011
01:13:28 GMT+00:00<B><BR>Subject: </B>Re: [Vision2020] who pays for Megaload
cops?<BR><BR></DIV><BR>Here's my take on the "who pays?" issue. Exxon/Mobil
has the proper permits, and is abiding by their use on a public highway. If
there were no protesters, then there would be no cops needed on extra duty.
Forcing Exxon/Mobil to pay is akin to a denial-of-service attack in the
computer world. All you need to do, if you don't like someone or some company,
is to stage a protest outside their place of business. The larger the better.
Then the person or the business will have to pay for their protection from the
police, regardless of whether or not they've done anything wrong. You might as
well get a bunch of people to write letters in protest and then force whoever
is the current target of their ire to pay for the paper, the envelopes, the
postage, and their time.<BR><BR>The only way I can see a justification for
Exxon/Mobil paying for the policemen on extra duty is if they specifically
contracted for them in order to protect the safety of their drivers. Which
leads to the question: who authorized the extra duty for the police officers -
the city, the police department, Exxon/Mobil or some other
group?<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>P.S. I snipped Mayor Cheney and Councilman Lamarr's
names from the to: list. I'm sure they get enough spam as it is and can choose
whether or not to read the Viz on their own cognizance.<BR><BR>On 09/02/2011
05:27 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:<BR>> Wayne,<BR>> It has already been
confirmed that Exxon is not paying the cost of the > permit. You can check
the donation records of Idaho Republicans if you > don't believe they are
getting something for this from Exxon. And the > US Attorney General office
isn't going to do anything about it either > or any other politician
because they are also owned and operated by > Exxon and a handful of
corporations.<BR>> Donovan Arnold<BR>><BR>> *From:* Wayne Price
<BEAR@MOSCOW.COM><BR>> *To:* Donovan Arnold
<DONOVANJARNOLD2005@YAHOO.COM><BR>> *Cc:* Bill London <LONDON@MOSCOW.COM>;
vision2020 > <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>; nancy chaney <NCHANEY@MOSCOW.COM>;
Tom Lamar > <TLAMAR@MOSCOW.COM><BR>> *Sent:* Friday, September 2, 2011
6:15 PM<BR>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] who pays for Megaload
cops?<BR>><BR>> Donovan,<BR>><BR>> IF you can prove that, contact
me off line and I'll give you a point > of contact at the US Attorney's
Office to get in touch with.<BR>><BR>>
WMP<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> On Sep 2, 2011, at
5:05 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:<BR>><BR>>> Wayne,<BR>>> No, they
didn't. They paid the politicians to change the law and make >> the
people pay for the cost of the permit.<BR>>> Donovan
Arnold<BR>>><BR>>> *From:* Wayne Price <BEAR@MOSCOW.COM
<mailto:bear@moscow.com>><BR>>> *To:* Bill London <LONDON@MOSCOW.COM
<mailto:london@moscow.com>><BR>>> *Cc:* vision2020
<VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>> <MAILTO:VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>>; nancy chaney
<NCHANEY@MOSCOW.COM>> <MAILTO:NCHANEY@MOSCOW.COM>>; Tom Lamar
<TLAMAR@MOSCOW.COM>> <MAILTO:TLAMAR@MOSCOW.COM>><BR>>> *Sent:*
Friday, September 2, 2011 5:35 PM<BR>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] who
pays for Megaload cops?<BR>>><BR>>> Bill,<BR>>><BR>>>
EXXON paid for the permit which gave them the right to transport the >>
loads legally.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
Wayne<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> On Sep 2,
2011, at 4:29 PM, Bill London wrote:<BR>>><BR>>>>
WMP-<BR>>>> my point exactly<BR>>>> Exxon wants to play,
Exxon should pay<BR>>>> BL<BR>>>> *From:* Wayne Price
<MAILTO:BEAR@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>>> *Sent:* Friday, September 02, 2011
4:21 PM<BR>>>> *To:* Bill London
<MAILTO:LONDON@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>>> *Cc:* vision2020
<MAILTO:VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>; nancy chaney >>>
<MAILTO:NCHANEY@MOSCOW.COM>; Tom Lamar
<MAILTO:TLAMAR@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] who
pays for Megaload cops?<BR>>>> Didn't advocate making them "so
expensive that those rights >>> disappear", but what is wrong with
you play, YOU pay?<BR>>>> WMP<BR>>>> On Sep 2, 2011, at 4:16
PM, Bill London wrote:<BR>>>><BR>>>>>
WMP-<BR>>>>> so your goal is to make freedom of expression and
civil >>>> disobedience so expensive that those rights
disappear?<BR>>>>> BL<BR>>>>> *From:* Wayne Price
<MAILTO:BEAR@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, September 02,
2011 2:05 PM<BR>>>>> *To:* Bill London
<MAILTO:LONDON@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>>>> *Cc:* vision2020
<MAILTO:VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>; nancy chaney >>>>
<MAILTO:NCHANEY@MOSCOW.COM>; Tom Lamar
<MAILTO:TLAMAR@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] who
pays for Megaload cops?<BR>>>>> So, some protesters show up and
the local police respond and you >>>> want the folks that have the
permits to pay?<BR>>>>> WHEN the protesters break the laws, their
fines should pay for the >>>> disturbances they cause. Now, who
decided some 25 additional >>>> police officers were
needed?<BR>>>>> That dog won't hunt!<BR>>>>>
WMP<BR>>>>> On Sep 2, 2011, at 1:38 PM, Bill London
wrote:<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>> According to newspaper
reports, about 25 local cops (17 Moscow, 9 >>>>> county) were
at the latest megaloads confrontation Thurs night in >>>>>
downtown Moscow.<BR>>>>>> Who is paying for all the overtime
for those officers? I called >>>>> David Duke (Moscow police
chief) who said that we are. The >>>>> taxpayers. You. Me. Us.
We are spending money to help the >>>>> world’s richest
corporation (Exxon/Mobil) get their equipment >>>>> delivered
on time.<BR>>>>>> Thankfully, Duke said that the city council
will be discussing >>>>> this issue on Tuesday (Sept 6) at
their regular meeting. I hope >>>>> the council tells Exxon to
pay those costs.<BR>>>>>> BL<BR>>>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>>>>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>>>>>
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href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A> <<A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A>/><BR>>>>>>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>>>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
=======================================================<BR>>> List
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communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>> <A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A> <<A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A>/><BR>>>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com <MAILTO:VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>>
=======================================================<BR>>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
=======================================================<BR>> List services
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Palouse since 1994.<BR>> <A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>>
=======================================================<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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