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While I'm on the subject of Opposite Land, it's usually the
right-wing fundamentalists that are trying to push for harsher
punishments and it's usually the more liberal community saying "hey,
hold on there! He's got rights, too, ya know!"<br>
<br>
Oh, well. Maybe if I get all fired up about staying here in
Opposite Land I'll suddenly end up back home. Worth a try, anyway.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 08/23/2011 12:49 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:D681453D-52D3-4038-8B1B-00B95516642D@moscow.com"
type="cite">
<div>Remind us again, Mr. Rumelhart -</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How does Doug Wilson go about defending . . .</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/CR_2005_02027">http://www.tomandrodna.com/CR_2005_02027</a><br>
<br>
<div>Seeya round town, Moscow.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
<div> </div>
<div>"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist
expects it to change <span class="Apple-style-span" style="">and
the Realist adjusts his sails."</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Unknown</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 23, 2011, at 12:19, "Art Deco" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">It has been the so-called
liberals on this site who have raised the loudest cry
against child sexual abuse, spousal sexual abuse, and
similar criminal abuses. That such liberals are against
such abhorrent practices doesn't mean that they are
against freedom of sexual expression between consenting
adults.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">On the other hand, the
conservatives, here and elsewhere, have been mostly mute
on these child abuse subjects. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">In fact, Paul, you were one
of the conservatives defending allowing admitted serial
pedophiles such as Steven Sitler the absolute right to
marry and to make children. The conservatives, for
example, are more interested in railing against gays and
gay marriage or at least questioning the value of allowing
such marriages than taking a vigorous stand against child
sexual molestation and exploitation.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">The ultimate hypocrite,
Douglas Wilson, has, in his now diminishing
pseudo-ministry, been a screeching railer against
pornography. But all of a sudden faced with declining
cult membership, interest in himself and crackpot
quasi-theology, and most importantly to him, declining
revenue, has resorted to the always successful formula
"Sex Sells." In doing so Wilson hypocritically endorses
and promulgates the notion that Mark Driscoll's Blue
Movies from Jesus visions are of important spiritual
and doctrinal value to his Reformed community despite the
fact that the possibility of any visions from Christ are
in complete conflict with Wilson's avowed </font><font
face="Verdana" size="2">cessationist theological dogma.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Perhaps, you didn't
understand</font> <font face="Verdana" size="2">what I
wrote before:</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Verdana" size="2">Almost
everyone has sexual fantasies of various kinds and
intensities. Mark Driscoll is entitled to his. But
for him to claim they are visions from God is
delusional, and to broadcast and to celebrate them as
such is beyond outré. And when crackpots/con artists
like Wilson who intentionally and for profit
promulgate such delusions and celebrations, especially
when contrary to their alleged theological beliefs in
the name of their alleged God, one can easily see why
Rose proclaims: "Worse than anything I could imagine."</font></div>
</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Here is where I disagree
with Rose's "Worse than anything I could imagine." From
my point of view and state of knowledge, my opinion is
there is nothing that I could imagine that Wilson would
not do to further, to defend, or to protect himself, his
sources of revenue, his unquenchable desire for attention
and admiration, his desire for power and control, his will
to establish a theocracy, etc.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Paul, you write:</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff">"I must have crossed over
into Opposite Land last night when I went to sleep."</font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Not such much. Just
another of your cheap rhetorical tricks of twisting what
has been said to set up a bale of straw to attack. But I
agree in a way with the quote, except that "last night"
should read "many years ago" and "Opposite Land" should
read "Just to Be Contrary Land."</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">w.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt Tahoma;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(245,
245, 245);">
<div style=""><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</a>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:47 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mailto:deco@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Moscow Vision 2020</a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes,
& Mark Driscoll</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family:
times new roman,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-size: 12pt;">
<div><span>Odd.</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>Traditionally, it's the liberal community's job
to defend all things sexual in nature from the ire of
offended puritanical right-wing fundamentalists.</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>I must have crossed over into Opposite Land last
night when I went to sleep. How do you get back? Find
the portal and travel away from it? Don't look for it
at all and fall into it by mistake?</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>I hope I figure it out soon. On the plus side,
Facebook is a lot more private here and Microsoft is
working hard to get Windows on 10% of user's desktops.<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>Paul<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new
york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new
york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Arial"
size="2">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
Art Deco <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Moscow Vision 2020 <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:14 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes, & Mark Driscoll<br>
</font><br>
<div id="yiv1737482642">
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">With all the buzz
about the Christ Church Cult's scheduling of
sexually obsessed so-called pastor Mark Driscoll
who receives pornographic visions from Jesus, a
couple of interest comments have passed almost
unnoticed.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Vera White
commented briefly about the latest
Wilson-steps-on-his-dick-again snafu in last
week's <i>Ink. </i><b> </b>[See complete <i>Ink</i>
comment below].</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">One paragraph is of
special interest:</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;"><font color="#0000ff">The INKster tried
for two days to reach Wilson for comment, but
was told he was busy with back-to-back
meetings. She did however talk to Assistant
Pastor Mike Lawyer Friday who explained the
conference might attract "people from all over
the world" and the agenda would include a
Minister's Conference for men titled "The
Puritan Five," and for females a session
called "Dangerous Women."</font></span></div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">First, Wilson,
whose invitation to Driscoll and inept, illogical
defense of that invitation has been widely
criticized and lampooned in the Reformed Community
of which Wilson is the alleged leader(at least for
now), hasn't got the courage to discuss it very
far outside his own cloistered circle. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Second, a friend
who is not on V2020 but reads the <i>Ink</i>
asked me if it was possible that Mike Lawyer
possibly misspoke or was misquoted in the above
paragraph. She wonders instead of <font
style="background-color: rgb(244, 244, 244);"
color="#0000ff" face="Times New Roman" size="3">"people
from all over the world"<font
style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">, </font></font></font><font
face="Verdana" size="2">what was really should
have appeared was "perverts from all over the
world."</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">w.</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">____________________________</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Vera White, <i>The
Ink, Moscow-Pullman Daily News</i></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">....</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
9pt;"></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">The INKster had never heard of Pastor
Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in Seattle
until the outraged postings started appearing
on Vision2020 this week. What stirred up such
solid citizens as Saundra Lund of Moscow is</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">Nazarene Church Pastor Ed Eby's
willingness to rent his Church for an
appearance by Driscoll.</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">"I cannot imagine that the community
will be overly impressed that the Nazarene
Church has rented itself out for a 'sexinar,'
" Lund concluded.</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">In Eby's defense, he rented out his
church to Doug Wilson and Christ Church
elders, sponsors of Driscoll's appearance next
month at a conference titled "The Grace
Agenda: All of Christ for All of Life for All
The World."</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">Driscoll has a blog on which in 2008 he
answered such questions as: Can I perform anal
sex on my wife? Can we use sex toys? My wife
likes to masturbate me upon occasion and wants
to know how to get better at it. What should
she do?</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">The INKster tried for two days to reach
Wilson for comment, but was told he was busy
with back-to-back meetings. She did however
talk to Assistant Pastor Mike Lawyer Friday
who explained the conference might attract
"people from all over the world" and the
agenda would include a Minister's Conference
for men titled "The Puritan Five," and for
females a session called "Dangerous Women."</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">How well does Lawyer know Driscoll?</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">"I've read some of his recent stuff,"
Lawyer said. "We feel his stuff is appropriate
and like him as far as we know. We respect him
and his ministry."</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">The INKster tried to reach Eby but
ended up talking to temporary church secretary
Mary Jane Bauer.</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">"Pastor Eby doesn¹t want to talk about
Driscoll right now as he says he is still
researching the matter," said Bauer, who has
been a member of the church for 30 years.
"I've never heard of Driscoll, but we rent out
the church to many different groups.²</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">After the INKster explained a bit about
Driscoll's style, Bauer said she "highly
doubts she will be attending."</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left:
3.75pt; margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">...the blotter rests.</span></div>
</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">______________________</font><font
face="Verdana" size="2">_</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Wayne A. Fox<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wayne.a.fox@gmail.com">wayne.a.fox@gmail.com</a><br>
</font></div>
</div>
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</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<pre wrap="">
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