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I was underwhelmed by the amount of pornographic detail in the video
on the web page linked below, frankly. I was expecting something
far worse. The part in question, some details of a tryst he saw in
his visions between a member of a past audience and a tall blond
man, didn't seem over the top to me. Maybe I'm just jaded, or have
hung out too much on 4chan in the past. It looked to me like the
detail was added in an attempt to prove the truth of his visions to
himself. He described the encounter in a way that gave enough
detail that the lady in the audience would know he saw what he saw
and would have enough reason to object if it wasn't accurate. This
is an attempt to verify the accuracy of his visions, without being
too graphic. He describes the encounter in a way that gave detail
without dwelling on the actual act. He even tries to bring in
detail about the hotel room ("a certain-colored bedspread") without
naming the actual color in order to keep the exact hotel chain a
mystery.<br>
<br>
The problem is that he isn't taking into account the situation and
his own status. He is in danger of deluding himself into thinking
that possibly untrue visions are true. If the woman had had an
affair with her husband's short dark-haired best friend, she's
unlikely to correct him on this for fear that her husband will put
two and two together and figure out who she really slept with.
There's also the problem with a person on stage who is in front of
the faithful who is claiming to know specific things about members
of their flock and who is in a position to claim to be speaking for
God. If the woman hadn't had an affair, she may not contradict him
in front of a live audience for fear of coming across as being an
unbeliever in the church.<br>
<br>
As someone who has upon occasion seen things that I classify as
supernatural, I'm familiar with the need to verify things. The
problem is that few people take those steps and can slip down the
rabbit hole through a positive feedback self-deception loop. I
applaud him for attempting to verify things, if that is indeed what
he is doing. I'd suggest he take it further, though. If it were
me, I'd want to be damn sure, three times over, before I started
claiming that people have abused others or been unfaithful to their
spouses. He may just be a good reader of people. He may have
noticed the lady's reaction on a subliminal level when he brought up
the subject. This may have clued him in to the fact that she was
guilty about having an affair, and his mind might have supplied what
detail it could with no relation to reality, similar to how a dream
imparts information - a way for his subconscious to give him the
info with little regard for exact detail. Your subconscious
communicates with you via symbols, putting too much stock in details
is foolish, unless you've done the groundwork to actually verify
them.<br>
<br>
In my mind, the real danger is that he claims to be speaking for
Jesus. He looks to me like he believes that, and from there it's
just a few small steps to a whole host of *really bad things*, if
he's not careful. He needs to take a step back and make sure he
knows what he's doing. He can do real harm here simply by not being
distrusting enough. It's a very seductive position he's in. He is
convinced (rightly or wrongly) that he's seeing truthful visions of
others. This gives him a power that most people would be
hard-pressed not to use. People, for various reasons, don't want to
contradict him and this feeds his desire to be a man seeing visions
from God. He's a potential time-bomb waiting to explode. Right
now, he may be accusing people of having affairs or attacking their
wives when it's not true. Tomorrow, who knows? There are reasons
events like Heaven's Gate happen.<br>
<br>
I don't really have an opinion on the religious aspects of this,
i.e., how biblically correct his being able to have visions is.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 08/20/2011 10:26 AM, Art Deco wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:85CB356F43F84A0083BDEC36A105A1F4@cobra"
type="cite">
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<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Offering information relevant
to Rose Huskey's initial post, I posted the following link:</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2011/08/pornographic-divination.html
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2011/08/pornographic-divination.html">http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2011/08/pornographic-divination.html</a></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">The link offers from a
religious group, many of whom are Reformed, the sect that
Douglas Wilson anoints himself as the leader of. I posted
this information so that readers could see some of sexually
obsessed Reformed Pastor Mark Driscoll's remarks, and to see
the various reactions to it from within the Reformed
Community.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">There are a number of
issues discussed in this link in a sometimes very lively and
revealing manner. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">At least two are perhaps worth
a short comment upon from an outsider's point of view.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong><font face="Verdana" size="2">Cessationism v.
Anti-Cessationism</font> </strong></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Cessationists, of whom Douglas
Wilson is an example, believe that the Bible, at least in the
form that Wilson uses, is the last word from his alleged God.
There haven't been nor will there be anymore signs, words,
revelations, etc from this God until judgment day.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">The Anti-Cessationists believe
that God still speaks and among the way it speaks is through
revelations, visions, signs, etc.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">This is what is curious: Mark
Driscoll claims his very sexually charged, obsessive,
explicit visions including visions of rape, homosexuality,
child molestation are visions from God.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">This is contrary to Wilson's
position yet Wilson defends Driscoll's use of these visions
and has made him the feature attraction of Wilson's upcoming
Grace Sexinar. If you read the comments found in the above
link, you will see how cleverly and not without the <em>serrated
edge</em> Wilson's lame and illogical defense of this
inclusion of Driscoll is skewered by various members of the
Reform Community.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">For of us that occasionally
visit various religious commentary sites, this latest double
gaffe( inviting Driscoll, and then defending his view) of
Wilson's is one in a long line of declines in his national
prominence and influence. His ersatz and not clearly thought
through, uneducated theology has come under increasing attack
from many who were at one time his allies.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">When someone like Wilson sets
themselves up as the ultimate authority, mistakes cannot be
admitted without undermining that authority. But Wilson's
mistakes are sometimes so glaringly obvious that his ultimate
authority is undermined anyway. It will be interesting to see
the amount of permanent damage Wilson has inflicted upon
himself with the Driscoll gaffes.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong><font face="Verdana" size="2">Catching On</font></strong></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">There is another very
interesting phenomenon found in the comments section of the
above link.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Various apostates of Wilson's
Christ Church Cult have commented upon his unsuitability to be
a pastor citing lack of his moral fitness, dishonesty,
intolerance, narrow, illogical interpretation of scripture,
narrowly proscribing the kind of music allowed in church,
glaring favoritism toward his family and others, defending the
indefensible (Sitler, Wight, et al), etc as reasons for their
views.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Among his current flock there
are spouses, most of them women, who hold similar views.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">I haven't read every dispute
with Wilson on the web over Reform matters, but the comments
in this link are the first time I have seen either directly or
indirectly members of the Reform Movement questioning Wilson's
suitability to be a Reformed pastor. If you read closely the
reasons are similar to some of the above including lack of
moral fitness and theological errancy and inadequacy.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">There is an old adage about
adultery: "The husband/wife is always the last to know."</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Aside from the obvious very
close-to-home implications, it appears that Wilson's local
flock is in the same position as a cuckold. Perhaps if some
of them read the comments in the above link from their
brothers and sisters in the Reform Movement, the might begin
to catch on to what a hypocritical, self-centered, bamboozling
charlatan their pastor is and decide it is time find a
congregation with a leader of more integrity.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">It probably has not escaped
notice that besides Wilson, his son Nathan and apparently
permanently bewildered son-in-law Bennie Merkle are speakers
at the Grace Sexinar. So the cash keeps flowing into The <strong><font
color="#339966" size="5">Wilson Family Cult and Cash
Machine</font></strong>, but if reports are accurate, not
flowing nearly so copiously as in past times.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Almost everyone has sexual
fantasies of various kinds and intensities. Mark Driscoll is
entitled to his. But for him to claim they are visions from
God is delusional, and to broadcast and to celebrate them as
such is beyond outré. And when crackpots/con artists like
Wilson who intentionally and for profit promulgate such
delusions and celebrations, especially when contrary to their
alleged theological beliefs, in the name of their alleged God
one can easily see why Rose proclaims: "Worst than anything I
could imagine."</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">w.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Wayne A. Fox<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="mailto:wayne.a.fox@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:wayne.a.fox@gmail.com">wayne.a.fox@gmail.com</a><br>
</font></div>
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