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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Sometimes families, businesses, and other
organizations get so far in debt that the probability of them making good on
their debts is extremely low.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>That's why we have bankruptcy laws.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>I think many of these laws are ill-designed,
ill-used and abused, and are often used by the unscrupulous.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>That said, there are sometimes situations beyond
a person's or organization's control that place them in such impossible to pay
off debts situations such as medical expenses for individuals or long term
drought for farmers. Hence, I think some kinds of bankruptcy protection is
desirable.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Are we approaching the previously unthinkable for
our country -- is the current debt and current commitments
nearing the point of where it may be extremely improbable to pay it
off?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>I don't know, but I suspect that some of those
selling off now are seeing that their assets are in really grave peril, if not
facing almost total loss in the short and middle term.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>One sign that only a few have picked up on is
that some banks are beginning to charge depositors to hold their money instead
of paying interest on the money.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana><A
title="http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bank-of-ny-said-charging-for-big-cash-positions-2011-08-04?reflink=MW_news_stmp CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bank-of-ny-said-charging-for-big-cash-positions-2011-08-04?reflink=MW_news_stmp">http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bank-of-ny-said-charging-for-big-cash-positions-2011-08-04?reflink=MW_news_stmp</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>In my opinion this is a horrendously bad
sign:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>1. Banks have little
confidence that any turn around will happen soon and do not see ways of
investing money to make much money in the near future.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>2. Banks intend to make as
much money out this misery as they can.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>3. This is a time where
intelligently designed regulation of all financial institutions is necessary
--regulation that does not stifle honest and creative entrepreneurship, but
prevents fraud, excessive greed/taking advantage, and unnecessary risk
taking with depositor's and investor's funds.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>The economists are not of great help here.
There is no generally accepted economic theory and predictive body of knowledge
agreed upon by the majority of economists. The rosy predictions of the
so-called "trickle down" theories have grossly failed to materialize; tax
breaks as incentives have not worked well for about 40 years in fact, we had a
surplus of business growth/revenue just after Clinton raised
taxes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>I don't have an answer, but we need to stop doing
what isn't working. When a family is in debt, they need to reduce spending
and try to increase revenue, else they will never get out of debt. This
country and other countries need to do the same before the problems become
irreversible.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>In the long run I think we need to reduce the
national debt to zero, not allow deficit spending except in well defined
emergencies, and then only when the debt permission includes a fixed term pay
off plan. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>But this needs to be done very carefully.
Wealth is created by the production and sale of goods and services, and the
collection of what is owed for these items. Large scale layoffs reduce in
one fell swoop spendable income and thus the demand/purchase/payment for goods
and services.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>The other part of the debate is what services as
a country do we want -- we are one of the lowest taxed industrialized
nations. Many so-called Christians, especially tea baggers, claim we
are a Christian country. Some of these same people are the ones who wish
to greatly downsize or to eliminate programs which care for the unfortunate -- a
position that seems quite contrary to the clear teachings of Jesus, who
is alleged to had have something to do with Christianity..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>w.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:jborden@datawedge.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:jborden@datawedge.com">Jay Borden</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 08, 2011 12:32 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=godshatter@yahoo.com
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</A> ; <A
title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Moscow Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] And the Saga Continues . . .
(unfortunately)</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px">Paul:<BR><BR>There are two
large factors...<BR><BR>1) auto selling of securities holdings that
specify the portfolio must have a % of investments carrying a AAA rating (like
tbills)<BR><BR>2) investment horizon. You and I have the luxury of
time. We can let our money sit. Others on the fringe of retirement
are seeing their nest eggs lie in ruins and are pulling out for salvage....
fearing the market wont recover again on their windows of
time.<BR><BR>Jay<BR><BR><FONT color=#333333><I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><FONT face=sans-serif>Sent via DROID... so ignore the
</FONT></SPAN></I></FONT><FONT color=#333333><I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><FONT
face=sans-serif>typpos</FONT></SPAN></I></FONT></DIV><BR><BR>-----Original
message-----<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 14px"><B>From: </B>Paul
Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com><B><BR>To: </B>Tom Hansen
<thansen@moscow.com><B><BR>Cc: </B>Moscow Vision 2020
<vision2020@moscow.com><B><BR>Sent: </B>Mon, Aug 8, 2011 19:17:14
GMT+00:00<B><BR>Subject: </B>Re: [Vision2020] And the Saga Continues . . .
(unfortunately)<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"><BR>I don't understand this.
Really, what's changed that affects any given stocks fundamentals? If I
own a stock I bought prior to last week, what has fundamentally changed about
that stock that I should start assuming it's not just going to climb it's way
back up to where it was as soon as the panicked sheep have stopped slashing
their own throats? Unless I have reason to believe that my stock will
plummet to zero, I would think that the last thing I should do now would be to
sell. On the other hand, if I had the money I'd buy lots of good, sound
stocks that have fallen in value that someone else has sold out of some hazy
"fear of the financial situation" and ride them back up to where they
were in a few weeks time when this whole stock market hysteria blows
over.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>On 08/08/2011 07:58 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:000501cc55db$a9f24f10$fdd6ed30$@com type="cite">
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<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal>The market as of 10:50 AM (New York Stock Exchange Time),
today.<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Thank you, Tea Party!<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><IMG id=Picture_x0020_0 alt=Market_1050_080811.JPG
src="cid:part1.01030509.07090908@yahoo.com" width=601
height=338><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>The DOW is down almost 1,200 points . . . SINCE
TUESDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>One can hardly imagine what to expect from the 12-member
super congress panel in November . . .<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Second verse same as the first, a little bit louder, a
little bit worse.<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Seeya round town, Moscow.<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Tom Hansen<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Moscow, Idaho<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P></DIV><PRE wrap=""><FIELDSET class=mimeAttachmentHeader></FIELDSET>
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