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<DIV><FONT size=2>What is the difference in the levels of crackpotiness and
intolerance between the Potlatch Preacher, <FONT size=3><FONT size=2>Lloyd
Knerr</FONT> </FONT>at the Freeze Church who claims that all Mormons will go to
hell and Cultmaster/Parson Douglas Wilson who claims that all Catholics would
believe the doctrines of that church will go to hell?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Isn't wonderful that we have two such gifted persons who knows
exactly what some alleged God has determined as far as alleged salvation
goes? Isn't it wonderful that Wilson can also maintain that salvation
depends on "a true faith in Jesus" but also hold, as a Calvinist, that whether
someone will achieve salvation was determined by God at the moment of
creation? [Of course the only "true faith in Jesus" is the one Wilson
preaches. Preacher Knerr also thinks that he is preaching the only "true
faith in Jesus."]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Wasn't/Isn't it wonderful and heartwarming that some alleged
omnipotent, omniscient God made so clear and unequivocal to humankind that there
cannot be any doubt or dispute about what the "true faith" is?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<H2> </H2>
<H2>Doug Wilson Weighs in on the Eternal Fate of Faithful Catholics
</H2><SMALL>May 12th, 2011 | By <A title="Posts by Matt Yonke"
href="http://www.calledtocommunion.com/author/mattyonke/">Matt Yonke</A> |
</SMALL></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">In an article titled “<A
onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/newchristendom.blogspot.com/2011/05/doug-wilson-says-faithful-catholics.html');"
href="http://newchristendom.blogspot.com/2011/05/doug-wilson-says-faithful-catholics.html"
target=blank>Doug Wilson says faithful Catholics will go to hell</A>,” David
Meyer recently posted a video in which Doug Wilson, pastor of Christ Church in
Moscow, Idaho responded to the question, “Will faithful Roman Catholics be in
Heaven?”</P>
<P><SPAN id=more-7950></SPAN></P>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><IFRAME height=413
src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/16270352?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0&color=ffffff"
frameBorder=0 width=550></IFRAME></P>
<P><A
onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/vimeo.com/16270352');"
href="http://vimeo.com/16270352">Will Faithful Roman Catholics go to heaven</A>
from <A
onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/vimeo.com/canonwired');"
href="http://vimeo.com/canonwired">Canon Wired</A> on <A
onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/vimeo.com');"
href="http://vimeo.com/">Vimeo</A>.</P>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">His simple answer is, “Of course, and of course
not.” He explains, <FONT color=#ff0000 size=4><STRONG>“If someone is a faithful
Roman Catholic in the sense that they have memorized the Council of Trent and
they do everything, they follow, they understand the teaching of the Roman
Church, and they follow it, and they trust in that teaching—I don’t believe that
such a person can be saved.”</STRONG></FONT></P>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">On the other hand he also believes that there are
many Roman Catholics who are “saved people” who nonetheless have inconsistencies
in their belief. He explains this by saying that such Catholics rationalize or
don’t really hold deep down to the Catholic teachings which Pastor Wilson
believes <STRONG>would</STRONG> send them to Hell if they truly believed them
the way the Catholic Church teaches them, such as the Church’s teaching on the
veneration of Holy Images, which he holds to be idolatry.</P>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">I asked Pastor Wilson about such inconsistencies
and what he would think about a specific intelligent faithful Catholic he knows
who certainly believes and understands the teachings of the Catholic Church. As
an example I used the influential orthodox Catholic thinker Robert George, who
spoke at New St. Andrews’ College in Moscow’s commencement last year. He said he
respected and enjoyed meeting Robert George, but gave this example to explain
where he sees a person in George’s position:</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">
<P>For example, a man is told that it is okay to approach God through images,
and he does so. Through various internal workarounds and rationalizations and
inconsistencies (that I don’t understand), he manages to maintain a true faith
in Jesus despite this. But without those rationalizations he would fall into
idolatry <EM>simpliciter</EM>, be more consistent, and would be
lost.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">But this leaves us with an apparent
contradiction. In the video, Wilson says the faithful Catholic who believes the
Church’s teaching cannot be saved. Now he says that a faithful Catholic like
Robert George <STRONG>can</STRONG> be saved as long as he has these internal
workarounds.</P>
<P>Presumably the iconodule and the Catholic who believes the Council of Trent
and the rest of Catholic dogmatic teaching both have “simple faith in Christ,”
since having such a simple faith in Christ is a fundamental part of Catholic
teaching, that is, if he doesn’t have simple faith in Christ, he doesn’t believe
Trent. The only discernible difference seems to lie with the Council of Trent
itself, notable for its formulation of justification which does not exclude
works from the process of salvation in the same way the Reformation
<EM>solas</EM> do.</P>
<H2>The Protestant Must Protest</H2>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">The Protestant, to remain Protestant, must hold
that the issues that still divide Rome and Geneva are issues where salvation is
at stake. If they are not, they are issues that do not justify continued schism
within the body of Christ and they can and should have been worked out in the
first place at the Reformation within the context and authority of the Catholic
Church.</P>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">But Wilson knows there are Catholics who believe
every last jot and tittle of Catholic teaching, but clearly have faith in
Christ. If salvation is by faith alone, as the Reformed hold, workarounds must
be provided for those Catholics who clearly have faith in Christ, but only so
big as to allow for the admission of the iconodule, not the one who holds to the
Tridentine formula on justification. Otherwise the Protestant protest
necessarily dissolves.</P>
<H2><EM>Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus</EM></H2>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">The issue really boils down to what is meant by
the ancient teaching that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
Recognizing its importance, the Reformed try to hold to this teaching as well,
as the Westminster Confession says:</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">
<P>The visible church, which is also catholic or universal under the gospel
(not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those
throughout the world that profess the true religion; and of their children:
and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, the house and family of God, out
of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.—<EM>Westminster
Confession of Faith, XXV, II</EM></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">But this gets tricky when you don’t believe that
Jesus founded a visible, institutional Church. The lines get more and more
blurry, since you dare not exclude your fellow Protestants from the fold despite
the fact that, from the Reformed view, they have their own confusions on
justification just as serious as the Catholic’s. But keeping the lines clear and
distinct is all the more crucial for the Reformed Christian since he believes
that his confessions are, in fact, the purest expression of the Christian
faith.</P>
<H2>Catholicism—More to Lose, More to Give</H2>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">The irony is that the Catholic Church has much
more on the line and yet considers outsiders in a much more gracious way than
the Reformed. This is in part because of the great confidence the Catholic
Church has in who and what she is. Since the fullness of the Church subsists in
the Church in union with the Bishop of Rome, she has nothing to fear from other
claimants to the title of “Truest Expression of the Christian Faith.”</P>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">And, given that the Catholic Church puts no
boundaries on the reach of the grace of God, it is no stretch and no threat for
the Church to proclaim that there are those outside the Catholic Church who
could be saved, but any and all that are saved will be saved through the
Catholic Church.</P>
<P>For the Church to proclaim that some outside her visible bounds may be saved,
but that they will be saved by some form of communion with her doesn’t bring up
the same inconsistencies that Pastor Wilson faces in holding that salvation is
by faith in Christ alone but that there are those who have faith in Christ who
cannot be saved.</P>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">The Catholic understanding of salvation is, in
the end, a relational understanding, not a forensic one. So it does not trouble
the Catholic Church to say that the Reformed person who holds to the Westminster
Confession with all his heart but knows, loves and serves Jesus Christ will be
accepted into eternal life. He is certainly at a serious disadvantage in the
pursuit of holiness without all seven sacraments Christ gave the Church for that
purpose, but the fundamental question is that of man’s will in relation to His
God.</P>
<P>Certainly, <A
onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm');"
href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm">invincible ignorance</A> is a
precondition for one who holds to heretical doctrines to be saved, but that
ignorance is not contingent on the beliefs one holds. Invincible ignorance is
ignorance of true doctrine that cannot be dispelled by moral diligence, which is
intimately tied to the will. Simply believing and trusting the Westminster
confession is not, on its own, a damnable offense, unlike Wilson’s example of
the Catholic who holds to Trent and the rest of the Church’s teaching who
cannot, in his estimation, be saved.</P>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">So, while maintaining absolute rigidity on the
truths handed down from Christ to the Apostles, the Catholic Church is
simultaneously untroubled by letting the streams of grace run where they will.
There is no one who, in Pastor Wilson’s language, “could not be saved” on the
basis of doctrinal opinion. And thanks be to God for that.</P></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV>_________________________________<BR>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO
Box 9421<BR>Moscow, ID 83843</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:waf@moscow.com">waf@moscow.com</A><BR>208
882-7975<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>