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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Donovan writes:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns
= "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: blue">"I just think you have too many
false assumptions and false definitions of words in your
arguments."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">However, no specific examples of false
assumptions or false definitions (which is taken to mean words used in
other than their ordinary established manner) are cited even though the
arguments have been presented in a numbered sequence making them easy to
cite and to discuss.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Therefore, Donovan's above assertion has not been shown to have any
merit, but has the appearance of a rhetorical trick used when one side of
a debate does not have a plausible answer to the arguments presented by
the other.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Next, Donovan cites one of Zeno's paradoxes
to show that anything can be proven by false assumptions and
definitions.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, there
is no explanation or illustration of how the arguments presented in the
discussion of the Problem of Evil are structured in a similar manner to
Zeno's argument that was given.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Since no evidence of false assumptions and
definitions has been presented, and no demonstrations of specific invalid
or fallacious arguments have been made, these two claims are without even
attempted demonstrated merit.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Moving on, Donovan then
writes:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: blue">"Evil, is to disobey God's
command. It is not a specific act in and of itself. God created people
with the ability to decide if they wish to obey or not obey. He can do
that because He is all powerful. Humans create evil by doing what God has
given them the ability to do, disobey God. God gave humans this ability
because He wants people to freely choose to be with Him, not be forced to.
Just like me and you don't want to be around just people that are forced
to be.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: blue"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: blue">God always does the most
benevolent thing He can without eliminating our ability to disobey Him. If
God prevented people from killing or hurting each other He would be doing
something far less benevolent then anything else by eliminating our
ability to obey and be with Him after we die."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Consider:<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">"Evil,
is to disobey God's command. It is not a specific act in and of
itself."</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>This is an
example of the fallacy [<A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persuasive_definition">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persuasive_definition</A>]
of offering a persuasive definition:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">"A persuasive definition is a form of
definition which purports to describe the 'true' or 'commonly accepted'
meaning of a term, while in reality stipulating an uncommon or altered
use, usually to support an argument for some view, or to create or alter
rights, duties or crimes. … Persuasive definitions commonly appear in
controversial topics such as politics, sex, and religion, as participants
in emotionally-charged exchanges will sometimes become more concerned
about swaying people to one side or another than expressing the unbiased
facts."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Clearly, a persuasive definition is given for
"evil" in above argument offered by Donovan.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>For most people, the real evil of
the rape and murder of young children is found in the harm, pain,
degradation, and other life long consequences suffered by the victims,
their families, and associates, not that some alleged God was
disobeyed.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">There are many other problems with the above
argument, including that it is full of knowledge claims about the traits
of some alleged God which appear impossible to verify or even to give any
cogent evidence for.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Once it
asserted that God is omnipotent, then it follows that God can do anything,
which includes deceiving humankind without any fear of detection,
therefore all knowledge claims about any other traits of God cannot be
given any convincing or reliable evidence.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Only those claims which contain
contradictions can be conclusively refuted.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The Problem of Evil shows that asserting the
existence of an omnipotent, omnificent, omnibenevolent God leads to a
contradiction, and thus one or more of the premises of the argument
(omnipotence, omnificence, omnibenevolence) must be false.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Elementary
logic.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The above argument given by Donovan
asserts:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: blue">"God created people with the
ability to decide if they wish to obey or not obey. He can do that because
He is all powerful. Humans create evil by doing what God has given them
the ability to do, disobey God. God gave humans this ability because He
wants people to freely choose to be with Him, not be forced
to…"</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">This claim does not refute the conclusions
drawn from the Problem of Evil, but, in fact, supports them.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>This is the claim of the existence
of 'freewill' or 'freedom to choose' to explain the existence of
evil.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">To see the fallaciousness of this claim of
freewill in Donovan's assertions masquerading as an argument, consider <B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">the fundamental question</B>
engendered by the assumption that some alleged omnipotent, omnificent,
omnibenevolent God created the universe:<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>"<B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Did God know exactly what it was
doing at the moment of creation</B> <B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">of the
universe</B>?"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If God knew <B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">exactly what all the
consequences/outcomes of his act of creation were at the moment of
creation</B>,<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> </B>including
whether humankind would "choose" to disobey him or not, then these
so-called "free choices" by humankind were totally and completely
predetermined by God's creation plan and execution thereof, and therefore,
the freedom to choose to do anything not originally planned by God does
not exist, freewill/freedom to disobey God is an illusion/delusion, and
thus any argument using freewill or freedom of choice to justify the
existence of evil is erroneous without any hope of
redemption.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">On the other hand, if God did not know
whether humankind would choose to disobey him or not, then God had gaps in
his knowledge at the moment of creation, and thus is not
omnificent.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Hence, the conclusions drawn from the Problem
of Evil withstand Donovan's perhaps quite emotionally satisfying for some,
but transparently fallacious attempt to explain evil, among other things,
away.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Simply put, at the point of creation,
either:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A.<SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1"> </SPAN>God knew that
humankind would disobey it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Or<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">B.<SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1"> </SPAN>God did not know
that humankind would disobey it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.5in; MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt 1in"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If A, then all actions of humankind were part
of God's creation plan, and thus all human actions were
predetermined/preprogrammed including acts of disobedience from the
beginning, and hence, freewill cannot and does not exist, and thus evil is
totally and completely the creation and the fault of God, and therefore
God is not omnibenevolent.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.5in; MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt 1in"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If B, God lacked specific knowledge of the
outcomes of his creation plan at the point of creation, and therefore God
is not omnificent.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Points of Interest and
Corollaries<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Ironically and similarly, the Bible,
allegedly the Word of this omnipotent, omnificent, omnibenevolent God,
offers many illustrations that God, in fact, is not omnipotent,
omnificent, and omnibenevolent, but prone to error, intemperate, childish,
irritable, petulant, and vengeful.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>These illustrations include the terminal incident in the Garden of
Eden and the advent of Jesus.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Did God know at the moment of creation that
those ingrates, Adam and the particularly fickle Eve, would choose to
disobey God's big command?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If
God knew, then Adam and Eve's actions were predetermined – they had no
real choice in deciding to chomp the apple, but were acting in a
preprogrammed manner.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If God
didn't know what these naked, thankless rotters would do, then Got is not
omnificent.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The Garden of Eden incident also raises
extremely serious, if not fatal, objections to the assertion that God is
omnibenevolent.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>God punishes
all succeeding generations of humankind with innumerable instances of pain
and suffering because two people disobeyed him by performing the heinous
act of eating an apple or the symbolic act of attempting to acquire
knowledge.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Punishing billions
of people for one misdeed of someone else, a deed over which the billions
punished had no control or choice, is good?<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Sorry Charley, but this is next to
impossible to accept as a sane assertion, let alone a plausible one.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Most of us find it abhorrent when
only one person is punished for some evil they did not commit, let alone
billions.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Why was it necessary for Christ to appear to
save humankind from their folly?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Did God know at the moment of creation that people were going to
turn out to be such rascally miscreants?<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If not, God is not
omnificent.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If God is, in
fact, omnificent and knew exactly and completely all the outcomes of his
creation plan, then all the sins and debaucheries of humankind were
predetermined at the point of creation, and regardless of any claim of
freewill, such evils were inexorably part of God's creation plan, pure and
simple.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And yet most of
humankind is to suffer eternal punishment for their actions which were
completely determined by God's creation plan.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And this is omnibenevolence?<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Wonderful.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Both the alleged incident in Garden of Eden
and the advent of the alleged Savior Jesus also raise serious, if not
fatal objections to the claim of God's omnipotence.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If God had to intervene at least
at these two points of its creation, thus have to try to alter its
original plan due to unanticipated events, errors, and bumblings, how can
God be omnipotent?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Omnipotent
beings, by definition, cannot make mistakes.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And if God screwed up in the
creation of parts of the universe (humankind), what else has it screwed
up?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Can it deliver without
error on any of the many fantasies of some alleged
heaven?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Donovan's argument further
asserts:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: blue">"God always does the most
benevolent thing He can without eliminating our ability to disobey
Him."</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">So killing millions of people, sometimes in
very torturous, grim, and disgusting ways via natural disasters is "t<SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">he most benevolent thing He can without eliminating
our ability to disobey Him,</SPAN>" and is good, not evil?<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>God is doing us wondrous, great,
colossal favors by causing natural disasters and murdering millions?<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Get real.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If God cannot prevent natural disasters,
events like earthquakes, volcanoes, and tidal waves, over which humankind
has no control or choice, events that have killed millions in horrible
ways and deprived the living of their presence, God is not
omnipotent.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If God can
prevent these natural disasters, God is not omnibenevolent, unless God
considers these gruesome, painful deaths to be good, not evil, something
that most of us do not.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If
God considers these events to be good and not evil, what kinds of
surprises await humankind in some alleged heaven, a place of allegedly
infinite good?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Consider also the following
assertion:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0.5in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: blue">"God gave humans this ability
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">[freewill]<SPAN
style="COLOR: blue"> because He wants people to freely choose to be with
Him, not be forced to."</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Poor God.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>God is lonely and insecure, and
thus needs our praise, reassurance, and company.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If so, then God is incomplete, has
vulnerable human traits, and thus cannot be said to be omnipotent, but
dependent on some lowly beings to satisfy its cravings for attention,
love, and approbation.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Further, as illustrated by characterizations in the Bible, God is
tetchy, petulant, spiteful, and vengeful to the point of inflicting
immense and widespread pain, suffering, and sorrow on those that displease
it.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>These cannot be the
traits of an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, or even greatly forgiving being,
but are the traits generally found in maladjusted, egotistical, power
hungry humans who cannot brook, and are not open and mentally healthy
enough to brook dissent.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Does it make sense that some alleged being, a
being with the alleged ability to create the universe with all of its
complexities and to keep it operating, is so vulnerable and incomplete
that it craves humankind's praise and approval, and then tests the
strength of that approval by making damningly evil many things it
knowingly and intentionally programmed as natural parts of humankind's
biological, psychological, and social makeup?<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Such a view is really a damning
insult to this alleged God intelligence, powers, and goodness by its
believers.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">So failing to show any false assumptions and
definitions, failing to show that any fallacious arguments have been
offered, and offering as an alternative an argument which also proves that
God cannot be omnipotent, omnificent, and omnibenevolent, we await the
next transparent attempt to deny reality.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">[Footnote:<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>In addition to authoring the
present sacrilegious discussion of the Problem of Evil, I have been
reprimanded for calling God, the alleged creator of the universe, "it"
instead of "He."<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I am unaware
of any credible argument demonstrating that the alleged creator of the
universe has male genitals.]<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p><FONT
size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> ; <A title=deco@moscow.com
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:32 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Response to
Joe, Donovan</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<DIV>Wayne,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I just think you have too many false assumptions and false
definitions of words in your arguments. We can always play these games,
for example, in order to go from nine years of age to 10 years in age, a
person must pass the half way point between 9 and 10, or 9.5 years in
age. In order to get to 9.5 years in age, that person must pass the half
way point between 9 and 9.5, or 9.25 years of age. This person must
continue to pass through an infinite number of halfway points before
reaching 10. Therefore, it only stands to reason that nobody
can reach the age of 10 no matter how long they
live </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Addressing your flawed reasoning on God and Evil;</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Evil, is to disobey God's command. It is not a specific act in and
of itself. God created people with the ability to decide if they wish to
obey or not obey. He can do that because He is all powerful.
Humans create evil by doing what God has given them the ability to
do, disobey God. God gave humans this ability because He wants
people to freely choose to be with Him, not be forced to. Just like
me and you don't want to be around just people that are forced
to be. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>God always does the most benevolent thing He can without
eliminating our ability to disobey Him. If God prevented people from
killing or hurting each other He would be doing something far less
benevolent then anything else by eliminating our ability to obey and be
with Him after we die. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I agree that we don't have freewill in everything we do. Most
of our decisions are based on our genes and environment
interacting. But we do have the freedom to choose to follow God,
which is what He wants and the reason we are here. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan Arnold</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 5/15/11, Art Deco
<I><deco@moscow.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
Art Deco <deco@moscow.com><BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Response to
Joe, Donovan<BR>To: "Vision 2020"
<vision2020@moscow.com><BR>Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 3:12
PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv249122955>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT size=2>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse"
class=yiv249122955MsoTableGrid border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 7.65in; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
vAlign=top width=734>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The Problem of Evil:<SPAN>
</SPAN>One Formulation </SPAN></B>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Did some allegedly all-powerful
(omnipotent), all-knowing (omnificent), perfectly good
(<SPAN><SPAN>omnibenevolent</SPAN></SPAN>) God Create the
Universe?</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Let's assume so for the sake of
argument.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If this omnipotent, omnificent,
omnibenevolent God created the universe, then God is the
cause/determiner of everything which happened/happens/will
happen or exists in the universe because if this God is
omnificent, it had exact foreknowledge of everything that would
happen as a result of this omnipotent creation from the moment
of creation.<SPAN> </SPAN>To say otherwise would be to
contradict God's omnificence and omnipotence.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Hence, <B>everything</B> that
happens in the universe was predetermined by God at the moment
of creation.<SPAN> </SPAN>This includes <B>all acts of
humankind</B>, and excludes completely the possibility of actual
freewill/freedom to choose between performing good and/or evil
acts, but not does not exclude the possibility of the fallacious
appearance to humankind that freewill exists.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Simply stated:<SPAN>
</SPAN>If there is something that is not predetermined (unknown
to or unpredicted by God), but somehow left to chance at the
moment of creation, then God is not omnificent.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If all is predetermined, the
appearance that freewill exists is like a Hollywood set –
possibly convincing to look at, but with naught behind
it.<SPAN> </SPAN>To say there is a meaningful,
left-to-chance choice is to say that God did not either
cause/determine and/or know what the result of that choice would
be – a denial of God's omnipotence and/or
omnificence.<SPAN> </SPAN>If there is real choice
(something God left to chance), then there is not
predetermination, and thus a gap in God's knowledge, and
therefore God would not be omnipotent and/or omnificent.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If God is omnibenevolent (perfectly
good), then <B>everything within God's control that happens,
including all human acts is good, not evil</B>:<SPAN>
</SPAN>God would not knowingly and intentionally perform any
evil act, any act that would result in evil, or even allow
anything evil in itself to exist.<SPAN> </SPAN>Nothing
evil (the opposite of good) can exist if God is omnibenevolent
and in total, complete control and the determiner of all that
happens in the universe.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">For example, the acts of Jeffrey
Dahmer where he tortured and murdered at least seventeen persons
(<A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer</A>)
were good, not evil acts.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Nor were the acts of Joseph Duncan
evil acts, who among other crimes murdered three adults who were
in the company of eight-year old Shasta Groene, abducted her and
her nine year old brother Dylan, then raped, sexually tortured,
and murdered Dylan in view of Shasta (<A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_E._Duncan_III"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_E._Duncan_III</A>).<SPAN>
</SPAN>But such acts, having been initially knowingly and
intentionally determined by an omnipotent, omnificent,
omnibenevolent God, were good, not evil acts.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Therefore, the belief by humankind
that evil exists is in grievous error, if God is omnipotent,
omnificent, and omnibenevolent.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The Problem of Evil occurs because
many persons believe that evil acts actually exist – the acts of
Dahmer and Duncan would be called evil by many.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Asserting that these acts were evil (not good) and were
knowingly predetermined/caused by an omnibenevolent God, who
could have done otherwise, creates an obvious contradiction
between God's alleged omnipotence and omnificence on one hand,
and God's alleged omnibenevolence on the other.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If evil acts exist, then:</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A.<SPAN>
</SPAN>God, if omnibenevolent, could not have foreseen nor
prevented such acts or God would have prevented them, hence God
is not omnipotent and/or omnificent.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">B.<SPAN>
</SPAN>God could not be omnibenevolent in that God knowingly and
intentionally caused/determined evil acts to occur despite that
if God were omnipotent and omnificent, and thus the determiner
of everything, could have prevented such acts.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">C.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Therefore, <B>God cannot be omnipotent, omnificent, and
omnibenevolent</B>.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Once the premises are accepted that
this alleged God is omnipotent, omnificent, and thus this God
created and determined the universe as it now exists and
everything it contains and all occurrences within it, then it
follows that God, given all the infinite choices open to
it:</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Knowingly and willfully chose to create/determine the
universe in the way it now exactly exists, and</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">B.<SPAN>
</SPAN>This God knew exactly everything (perfectly, to the last
watermelon seed) what would occur as a result of its
creation.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">C.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Therefore, <B>Evil is a knowing and intentional creation
of God</B>.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">There is no wiggle room here,
despite centuries of theological attempts to solve this
disturbing-to-the-faithful dilemma by various transparent
ruses.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If God is omnipotent and
omnificent, then it knowingly and intentionally
caused/determined all things that happened in the universe from
the point of creation onward including the acts of Dahmer and
Duncan.<SPAN> </SPAN>To attempt to say otherwise is to
deny either the omnipotence, omnificence, or both of
God.<SPAN> </SPAN>This would be in effect
saying:<SPAN> </SPAN>"Poor God.<SPAN> </SPAN>God
didn't quite know or quite care enough about what it was doing
and/or the consequences of its act of creation, and consequently
bumbled a bit.<SPAN> </SPAN>Nice try."</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">To further assert that evil does
not exist is to deny the basic reality of humankind's experience
and pervert the established use of language beyond credibility,
and thereby call certain acts not evil, thus good, that most of
us find extremely and horridly evil.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">There are many interesting
corollaries to the consequences of the Problem of Evil – that
God cannot be omnipotent, omnificent, and omnibenevolent.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">One is that the Bible (allegedly
the Word of an alleged God), for example, acknowledges/asserts
that evil acts do occur, and, in fact, asserts that God punishes
and will eternally punish some people for their evil
acts.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">{According to the Bible didn't
Jesus show up because something went radically wrong with God's
creation – the super-prevalence of evil?<SPAN>
</SPAN>(Isn't this assertion about Jesus an admittance by the
Christian followers of God that God admits that it screwed up
and needed to find a way to unscrew things [which doesn't appear
to have worked either, in fact seems to have been
counterproductive] another contradiction to the assertion of
God's alleged omnipotence?)}</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If this God is the omnipotent,
omnificent creator of the universe and determiner of everything
in it, then God is the determiner of all the evil acts and
occurrences within it.<SPAN> </SPAN>Punishing someone for
acts not even remotely within their control hardly constitutes
omnibenevolence.<SPAN> </SPAN>Citing that punishing seven
subsequent generations of progeny for the acts of one individual
as an example of omnibenevolence indicates that such
citers/believers are in greatly need of the services of
competent mental health professionals and/or that their
understanding of very elementary logic is egregiously defective,
perhaps beyond repair.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Another problem that arises is the
promise of and the nature of an afterlife.<SPAN> </SPAN>If
evil does not exist, especially in the eyes of an alleged
omnibenevolent God, then the good (not evil) acts of Duncan and
Dahmer would not be barred from heaven, but would be
allowed.<SPAN> </SPAN>The horrors experienced by Shasta
Groene could be re-experienced by her and others for an eternity
to provide a paradise for the Dahmers and Duncans.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If evil exists, then God cannot be
omnipotent and/or omnificent.<SPAN> </SPAN>Hence, how can
this God or any of its followers be confident that God can
deliver on its promises of heaven and what will occur there, or
even the correctness of its choices about whom will be housed
there?</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Another problem with the assertion
of omnipotence and omnificence of some alleged God is that it
makes both entreating and laudatory prayer meaningless except as
phatic communication.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Why would an omnipotent, omnificent
God ever change its intentions about the operation of its
creation, the universe, when entreated by a
much-less-wiser-than-God member of humankind?<SPAN>
</SPAN>To do so would be a clear indication that God had made a
misjudgment/error during the act of creation, and thus a
contradiction of God's omnipotence and omnificence.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Such an entreating prayer would be a gross insult to God,
insinuating that God is not running things as it should and
should heed the exhortations or requests of a much less
knowledgeable human.<SPAN> </SPAN>Such entreating prayers
are indirectly, but clearly telling God that he lacks
omnipotence, omnificence, and omnibenevolence and that God
better pay attention so that it gets things right.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">To say that God needs or wants
praise or approval for his act of creation and its consequences
is attributing to God a fundamental weakness of
humankind.<SPAN> </SPAN>If God is omnipotent, and thus
completely and totally confident and completely assured about
all its acts, why would it crave, need, or relish the approval
and reassurance of one small, clearly not omnipotent or
omnificent being of its creation?</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A fourth problem that arises is the
problem of faith in God's alleged trait of benevolence [or any
other alleged trait].<SPAN> </SPAN>If God is omnipotent
(or even greatly wiser than humankind) then God could easily
deceive humankind about its (God's) alleged
goodness.<SPAN> </SPAN>To say that God could not deceive
humankind would be to assert that humankind, or at least the
believers among them, think that they are smarter than God and
have him correctly pegged, clearly a contradiction to God's
omnipotence.<SPAN> </SPAN>It also should be clear that
asserting the omnipotence of some alleged God makes any other
knowledge claims about any other of this God's alleged traits or
intentions unverifiable in any way since this God could be The
Great Omnipotent Deceiver, and therefore humankind would not be
in a position to verify any other claims about God, or to refute
them except by finding contradictions in such.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">So that responses to the above, if
desired, can be discussed without irrelevant side trips and
emotional pleas and confessions of faith, below is the main gist
of the above formulation broken down by premises, inferences,
and conclusions.<SPAN> </SPAN>Those disagreeing can then
state by number which they disagree with and why.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">In what follows, if not explicitly
stated, "God" should be read "alleged God."</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Main Initial Premises.</SPAN></B>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">1.<SPAN>
</SPAN>There is a God.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">2.<SPAN>
</SPAN>God is omnipotent (all powerful, can do anything it
chooses, etc).</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">3.<SPAN>
</SPAN>God is omnificent (knows <B>all/everything</B> there is
to know, past, present, and future including the
consequences/determinants of all its acts and all the conscious
and unconscious thoughts and feelings of every human).</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">4.<SPAN>
</SPAN>God is omnibenevolent (<B>perfectly</B> good, abhors and
would not permit anything evil (clearly not good) ever to exist
or to occur, if it could prevent it.)</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">5.<SPAN>
</SPAN>God knowingly and intentionally created the universe as
we know it and exactly as it is.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Beginning of Inferences</SPAN></B>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">6.<SPAN>
</SPAN>If this God is omnipotent, omnificent, and
omnibenevolent, and created the universe, then God is the
cause/determiner of everything that happens as a result of its
all-knowing and intentional act of creation from the moment of
that creation.<SPAN> </SPAN>God was/is/will be in complete
control and the determiner of everything at all
times.<SPAN> </SPAN>To assert there is something that God
is not in complete control of (something somehow left to chance)
is to deny either God's omnipotence and/or omnificence.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">7.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Since God is omnificent, God had exact foreknowledge of
everything that would occur/be determined as a result of its
omnipotent act of creation.<SPAN> </SPAN>To say God didn't
know exactly to a tee what would occur or be determined as a
result of his creation would be to contradict God's
omnificence.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">8.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Since God is omnipotent and omnificent, <B>everything</B>
that happens in the universe was knowingly and intentionally
predetermined from the moment of creation.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Therefore, all future acts of humankind were
predetermined at moment of creation.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">9.<SPAN>
</SPAN>If all acts of humankind are predetermined, then there
can be no freedom of choice or so-called free will.<SPAN>
</SPAN>If there are acts of which God did not have foreknowledge
of, then God is not omnificent.<SPAN> </SPAN>If there are
acts of which God is not in control of or the determiner of but
are somehow left to chance, then God is not
omnipotent.<SPAN> </SPAN>Therefore, the appearance of
freewill is an illusion/delusion if God is omnipotent and
omnificent.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">10.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Any act that occurs in the universe was either
predetermined at the moment of creation or not.<SPAN>
</SPAN>If God is omnipotent and omnificent then God
intentionally and knowingly created/determined the universe to
be the way it now exists.<SPAN> </SPAN>If there is
something, like a human act which is not predetermined, but has
been somehow left to chance (an unknown outcome), then God is
not omnificent.<SPAN> </SPAN>If there is real choice, and
thus an indeterminate gap in God's knowledge, there is not
predetermination, and thus God is not omnificent. If there was
no gap in God's knowledge/foreknowledge at the moment of
creation, then all acts are therefore knowingly and
intentionally predetermined by God.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">11.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Therefore all acts of humankind are predetermined and
occur regardless of the appearance of choice/freewill, if God is
omnipotent and omnificent.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">12.<SPAN>
</SPAN>If God is omnibenevolent (<B>perfectly</B> good), then
every act that God has control over or determines would be good
and not evil.<SPAN> </SPAN>God would not knowingly and/or
intentionally perform or allow the performance of any act that
was not good, that is, evil.<SPAN> </SPAN>If God is
omnibenevolent (<B>perfectly</B> good), and thus totally and
completely abhorrent to and completely opposed to evil, and this
omnipotent, omnificent God was in complete control and the
determiner of everything that happens in the universe from the
moment of creation, then nothing evil would or could ever exist
in the universe.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">13.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Since God is omnipotent, omnificent, and thus is in a
position to unequivocally impose its omnibenevolence, then
<B>evil does not and cannot not exist</B>.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Hence, no acts by humankind are evil, but <B>all such
acts are good</B>.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">14.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Since evil cannot exist if God is omnipotent, omnificent,
and omnibenevolent, the belief of humankind holding that evil
exists is in grievous error.<SPAN> </SPAN>Evil cannot
exist if God is omnipotent, omnificent, and
omnibenevolent.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">15.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Therefore, the acts of child torturers, rapists, and
murderers are not evil, but good acts.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">16.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Further, since evil cannot exist, the acts called evil in
the Bible, the alleged word of God, are not evil, but
good.<SPAN> </SPAN>Therefore the Bible is in error, and
could not have been authored, even by proxy, by an omnipotent,
omnificent, and omnibenevolent God.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Therefore, the Bible is not the Word of this God, but a
grand, but not evil deception of God since there is no evil –
everything is good.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">17.<SPAN>
</SPAN>The Problem of Evil occurs because many persons believe
that evil exists, for example, the acts of child
molesters.<SPAN> </SPAN>Since these acts of child
molestation would not have occurred unless they were knowingly
and intentionally predetermined by an omnipotent, omnificent
God, then God cannot be omnibenevolent if <B>child
molestation</B>, for example, <B>is evil</B>.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">18.<SPAN>
</SPAN>If evil acts exist, then:</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A.<SPAN>
</SPAN>God, if omnibenevolent (<B>perfectly</B> good), could not
have foreseen nor prevented such acts or God would have, hence
God is not omnipotent and/or omnificent.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">B.<SPAN>
</SPAN>God is not omnibenevolent in that God knowingly and
intentionally caused/causes evil acts to occur since God, if
omnipotent and omnificent, could have prevented such acts of
which he was the determiner.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">C.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Therefore, <B>God cannot be omnipotent, omnificent, and
omnibenevolent</B>.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">19.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Once the premises are accepted asserting that this
alleged God is omnipotent, omnificent, that evil exists, and
this God knowingly and intentionally created the universe and
everything in it, then it follows that God, given all the
infinite choices open to it:</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Knowingly and willfully chose to create the universe in
the way it now exactly exists, and</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">B.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Hence, this God knew exactly everything (perfectly, to
the last watermelon seed) what would occur as a result of its
creation at the moment of creation, and <B>evil</B>, as we now
know it <B>is God's creation</B>, and thus clearly demonstrates
that God is not omnibenevolent.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">20.<SPAN>
</SPAN>We are left with the unavoidable, but unpalatable-to-some
conclusion that God cannot be omnipotent, omnificent, and
omnibenevolent.<SPAN> </SPAN>We are then left with a host
of problems created by that this clearly demonstrated
insufficiency of God, if God as presently conceived by
humankind, exists at all.</SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"
class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN></B>
<DIV></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=yiv249122955MsoNormal><FONT
size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </P></DIV></FONT></DIV><FONT
size=2>
<DIV><BR>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO Box 9421<BR>Moscow,
ID 83843</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
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