<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Joe writes,</DIV>
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<DIV>"How can it wreak someones free will if God saves them from death at the hands of another? It can't."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You are not understanding the argument correctly, Joe. It is not the victims free will, but the assailants free will that is taken away. If God prevents people from murdering He prevents them from being able to choose to follow His first commandment.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If we take it to the level of Wayne and your argument, "God must stop all bad from happening", nobody could commit any action that would hurt someone because God would step in, assume responsibility, and make sure nobody was hurt, we could all do whatever we wanted to do, with the exception of being able to go against God, because He has to step in and prevent that so nobody gets hurt, as your thinking goes.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One the other hand, wouldn't that be fun? We could go to war, and nobody would die. You could push people off a building, but not a problem because God would stop them from splatting at the bottom. No need for parachutes, or even to land the airplane, just kick them out the door of the plane, God will stop them from a hard landing. We could buy crap in China and not feel bad about it. We could be horrible parents and not worry about it. We could also even follow Tom Luna's education plan, and God would step in there too. It would be like the episode of Family Guy where Death was injured, laid out on the couch so nobody could die, and everyone found out about it. </DIV>
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<DIV>I'm not arguing that God never steps in, cause He might. But we would not be responsible for our actions if God was responsible for them and fixed our mistakes and prevented us from ever doing any harm.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan Arnold <BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 5/16/11, Joe Campbell <I><philosopher.joe@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe@gmail.com><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Response to Joe, Donovan<BR>To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com><BR>Cc: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>, "Art Deco" <deco@moscow.com><BR>Date: Monday, May 16, 2011, 6:14 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv2104734692>I'll have to look at Wayne's arguments more carefully -- though likely I'll agree with most of what he says.<BR><BR>Just a repeat of one of the points I've already made to Donovan: How can it wreak someones free will if God saves them from death at the hands of another? It can't. Otherwise you should save anyone either!<BR><BR>
<DIV class=yiv2104734692gmail_quote>On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Donovan Arnold <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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<DIV>Wayne,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I just think you have too many false assumptions and false definitions of words in your arguments. We can always play these games, for example, in order to go from nine years of age to 10 years in age, a person must pass the half way point between 9 and 10, or 9.5 years in age. In order to get to 9.5 years in age, that person must pass the half way point between 9 and 9.5, or 9.25 years of age. This person must continue to pass through an infinite number of halfway points before reaching 10. Therefore, it only stands to reason that nobody can reach the age of 10 no matter how long they live </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Addressing your flawed reasoning on God and Evil;</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Evil, is to disobey God's command. It is not a specific act in and of itself. God created people with the ability to decide if they wish to obey or not obey. He can do that because He is all powerful. Humans create evil by doing what God has given them the ability to do, disobey God. God gave humans this ability because He wants people to freely choose to be with Him, not be forced to. Just like me and you don't want to be around just people that are forced to be. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>God always does the most benevolent thing He can without eliminating our ability to disobey Him. If God prevented people from killing or hurting each other He would be doing something far less benevolent then anything else by eliminating our ability to obey and be with Him after we die. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I agree that we don't have freewill in everything we do. Most of our decisions are based on our genes and environment interacting. But we do have the freedom to choose to follow God, which is what He wants and the reason we are here. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan Arnold</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 5/15/11, Art Deco <I><<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deco@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A>></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Art Deco <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deco@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A>><BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Response to Joe, Donovan<BR>To: "Vision 2020" <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>><BR>Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 3:12 PM
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The Problem of Evil:<SPAN> </SPAN>One Formulation </SPAN></B></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Did some allegedly all-powerful (omnipotent), all-knowing (<SPAN>omnificent</SPAN>), perfectly good (<SPAN><SPAN>omnibenevolent</SPAN></SPAN>) God Create the Universe?</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Let's assume so for the sake of argument.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If this omnipotent, omnificent, omnibenevolent God created the universe, then God is the cause/determiner of everything which happened/happens/will happen or exists in the universe because if this God is omnificent, it had exact foreknowledge of everything that would happen as a result of this omnipotent creation from the moment of creation.<SPAN> </SPAN>To say otherwise would be to contradict God's omnificence and omnipotence.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Hence, <B>everything</B> that happens in the universe was predetermined by God at the moment of creation.<SPAN> </SPAN>This includes <B>all acts of humankind</B>, and excludes completely the possibility of actual freewill/freedom to choose between performing good and/or evil acts, but not does not exclude the possibility of the fallacious appearance to humankind that freewill exists.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Simply stated:<SPAN> </SPAN>If there is something that is not predetermined (unknown to or unpredicted by God), but somehow left to chance at the moment of creation, then God is not omnificent.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If all is predetermined, the appearance that freewill exists is like a Hollywood set – possibly convincing to look at, but with naught behind it.<SPAN> </SPAN>To say there is a meaningful, left-to-chance choice is to say that God did not either cause/determine and/or know what the result of that choice would be – a denial of God's omnipotence and/or omnificence.<SPAN> </SPAN>If there is real choice (something God left to chance), then there is not predetermination, and thus a gap in God's knowledge, and therefore God would not be omnipotent and/or omnificent.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If God is omnibenevolent (perfectly good), then <B>everything within God's control that happens, including all human acts is good, not evil</B>:<SPAN> </SPAN>God would not knowingly and intentionally perform any evil act, any act that would result in evil, or even allow anything evil in itself to exist.<SPAN> </SPAN>Nothing evil (the opposite of good) can exist if God is omnibenevolent and in total, complete control and the determiner of all that happens in the universe.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">For example, the acts of Jeffrey Dahmer where he tortured and murdered at least seventeen persons (<A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer</A>) were good, not evil acts.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Nor were the acts of Joseph Duncan evil acts, who among other crimes murdered three adults who were in the company of eight-year old Shasta Groene, abducted her and her nine year old brother Dylan, then raped, sexually tortured, and murdered Dylan in view of Shasta (<A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_E._Duncan_III" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_E._Duncan_III</A>).<SPAN> </SPAN>But such acts, having been initially knowingly and intentionally determined by an omnipotent, omnificent, omnibenevolent God, were good, not evil acts.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Therefore, the belief by humankind that evil exists is in grievous error, if God is omnipotent, omnificent, and omnibenevolent.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The Problem of Evil occurs because many persons believe that evil acts actually exist – the acts of Dahmer and Duncan would be called evil by many.<SPAN> </SPAN>Asserting that these acts were evil (not good) and were knowingly predetermined/caused by an omnibenevolent God, who could have done otherwise, creates an obvious contradiction between God's alleged omnipotence and omnificence on one hand, and God's alleged omnibenevolence on the other.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If evil acts exist, then:</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A.<SPAN> </SPAN>God, if omnibenevolent, could not have foreseen nor prevented such acts or God would have prevented them, hence God is not omnipotent and/or omnificent.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">B.<SPAN> </SPAN>God could not be omnibenevolent in that God knowingly and intentionally caused/determined evil acts to occur despite that if God were omnipotent and omnificent, and thus the determiner of everything, could have prevented such acts.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">C.<SPAN> </SPAN>Therefore, <B>God cannot be omnipotent, omnificent, and omnibenevolent</B>.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Once the premises are accepted that this alleged God is omnipotent, omnificent, and thus this God created and determined the universe as it now exists and everything it contains and all occurrences within it, then it follows that God, given all the infinite choices open to it:</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A.<SPAN> </SPAN>Knowingly and willfully chose to create/determine the universe in the way it now exactly exists, and</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">B.<SPAN> </SPAN>This God knew exactly everything (perfectly, to the last watermelon seed) what would occur as a result of its creation.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">C.<SPAN> </SPAN>Therefore, <B>Evil is a knowing and intentional creation of God</B>.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">There is no wiggle room here, despite centuries of theological attempts to solve this disturbing-to-the-faithful dilemma by various transparent ruses.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If God is omnipotent and omnificent, then it knowingly and intentionally caused/determined all things that happened in the universe from the point of creation onward including the acts of Dahmer and Duncan.<SPAN> </SPAN>To attempt to say otherwise is to deny either the omnipotence, omnificence, or both of God.<SPAN> </SPAN>This would be in effect saying:<SPAN> </SPAN>"Poor God.<SPAN> </SPAN>God didn't quite know or quite care enough about what it was doing and/or the consequences of its act of creation, and consequently bumbled a bit.<SPAN> </SPAN>Nice try."</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">To further assert that evil does not exist is to deny the basic reality of humankind's experience and pervert the established use of language beyond credibility, and thereby call certain acts not evil, thus good, that most of us find extremely and horridly evil.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">There are many interesting corollaries to the consequences of the Problem of Evil – that God cannot be omnipotent, omnificent, and omnibenevolent.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">One is that the Bible (allegedly the Word of an alleged God), for example, acknowledges/asserts that evil acts do occur, and, in fact, asserts that God punishes and will eternally punish some people for their evil acts.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">{According to the Bible didn't Jesus show up because something went radically wrong with God's creation – the super-prevalence of evil?<SPAN> </SPAN>(Isn't this assertion about Jesus an admittance by the Christian followers of God that God admits that it screwed up and needed to find a way to unscrew things [which doesn't appear to have worked either, in fact seems to have been counterproductive] another contradiction to the assertion of God's alleged omnipotence?)}</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If this God is the omnipotent, omnificent creator of the universe and determiner of everything in it, then God is the determiner of all the evil acts and occurrences within it.<SPAN> </SPAN>Punishing someone for acts not even remotely within their control hardly constitutes omnibenevolence.<SPAN> </SPAN>Citing that punishing seven subsequent generations of progeny for the acts of one individual as an example of omnibenevolence indicates that such citers/believers are in greatly need of the services of competent mental health professionals and/or that their understanding of very elementary logic is egregiously defective, perhaps beyond repair.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Another problem that arises is the promise of and the nature of an afterlife.<SPAN> </SPAN>If evil does not exist, especially in the eyes of an alleged omnibenevolent God, then the good (not evil) acts of Duncan and Dahmer would not be barred from heaven, but would be allowed.<SPAN> </SPAN>The horrors experienced by Shasta Groene could be re-experienced by her and others for an eternity to provide a paradise for the Dahmers and Duncans.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">If evil exists, then God cannot be omnipotent and/or omnificent.<SPAN> </SPAN>Hence, how can this God or any of its followers be confident that God can deliver on its promises of heaven and what will occur there, or even the correctness of its choices about whom will be housed there?</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Another problem with the assertion of omnipotence and omnificence of some alleged God is that it makes both entreating and laudatory prayer meaningless except as phatic communication.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Why would an omnipotent, omnificent God ever change its intentions about the operation of its creation, the universe, when entreated by a much-less-wiser-than-God member of humankind?<SPAN> </SPAN>To do so would be a clear indication that God had made a misjudgment/error during the act of creation, and thus a contradiction of God's omnipotence and omnificence.<SPAN> </SPAN>Such an entreating prayer would be a gross insult to God, insinuating that God is not running things as it should and should heed the exhortations or requests of a much less knowledgeable human.<SPAN> </SPAN>Such entreating prayers are indirectly, but clearly telling God that he lacks omnipotence, omnificence, and omnibenevolence and that God better pay attention so that it gets things right.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">To say that God needs or wants praise or approval for his act of creation and its consequences is attributing to God a fundamental weakness of humankind.<SPAN> </SPAN>If God is omnipotent, and thus completely and totally confident and completely assured about all its acts, why would it crave, need, or relish the approval and reassurance of one small, clearly not omnipotent or omnificent being of its creation?</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A fourth problem that arises is the problem of faith in God's alleged trait of benevolence [or any other alleged trait].<SPAN> </SPAN>If God is omnipotent (or even greatly wiser than humankind) then God could easily deceive humankind about its (God's) alleged goodness.<SPAN> </SPAN>To say that God could not deceive humankind would be to assert that humankind, or at least the believers among them, think that they are smarter than God and have him correctly pegged, clearly a contradiction to God's omnipotence.<SPAN> </SPAN>It also should be clear that asserting the omnipotence of some alleged God makes any other knowledge claims about any other of this God's alleged traits or intentions unverifiable in any way since this God could be The Great Omnipotent Deceiver, and therefore humankind would not be in a position to verify any other claims about God, or to refute them
except by finding contradictions in such.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">So that responses to the above, if desired, can be discussed without irrelevant side trips and emotional pleas and confessions of faith, below is the main gist of the above formulation broken down by premises, inferences, and conclusions.<SPAN> </SPAN>Those disagreeing can then state by number which they disagree with and why.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">In what follows, if not explicitly stated, "God" should be read "alleged God."</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Main Initial Premises.</SPAN></B> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">1.<SPAN> </SPAN>There is a God.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">2.<SPAN> </SPAN>God is omnipotent (all powerful, can do anything it chooses, etc).</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">3.<SPAN> </SPAN>God is omnificent (knows <B>all/everything</B> there is to know, past, present, and future including the consequences/determinants of all its acts and all the conscious and unconscious thoughts and feelings of every human).</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">4.<SPAN> </SPAN>God is omnibenevolent (<B>perfectly</B> good, abhors and would not permit anything evil (clearly not good) ever to exist or to occur, if it could prevent it.)</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">5.<SPAN> </SPAN>God knowingly and intentionally created the universe as we know it and exactly as it is.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Beginning of Inferences</SPAN></B> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">6.<SPAN> </SPAN>If this God is omnipotent, omnificent, and omnibenevolent, and created the universe, then God is the cause/determiner of everything that happens as a result of its all-knowing and intentional act of creation from the moment of that creation.<SPAN> </SPAN>God was/is/will be in complete control and the determiner of everything at all times.<SPAN> </SPAN>To assert there is something that God is not in complete control of (something somehow left to chance) is to deny either God's omnipotence and/or omnificence.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">7.<SPAN> </SPAN>Since God is omnificent, God had exact foreknowledge of everything that would occur/be determined as a result of its omnipotent act of creation.<SPAN> </SPAN>To say God didn't know exactly to a tee what would occur or be determined as a result of his creation would be to contradict God's omnificence.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">8.<SPAN> </SPAN>Since God is omnipotent and omnificent, <B>everything</B> that happens in the universe was knowingly and intentionally predetermined from the moment of creation.<SPAN> </SPAN>Therefore, all future acts of humankind were predetermined at moment of creation.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">9.<SPAN> </SPAN>If all acts of humankind are predetermined, then there can be no freedom of choice or so-called free will.<SPAN> </SPAN>If there are acts of which God did not have foreknowledge of, then God is not omnificent.<SPAN> </SPAN>If there are acts of which God is not in control of or the determiner of but are somehow left to chance, then God is not omnipotent.<SPAN> </SPAN>Therefore, the appearance of freewill is an illusion/delusion if God is omnipotent and omnificent.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">10.<SPAN> </SPAN>Any act that occurs in the universe was either predetermined at the moment of creation or not.<SPAN> </SPAN>If God is omnipotent and omnificent then God intentionally and knowingly created/determined the universe to be the way it now exists.<SPAN> </SPAN>If there is something, like a human act which is not predetermined, but has been somehow left to chance (an unknown outcome), then God is not omnificent.<SPAN> </SPAN>If there is real choice, and thus an indeterminate gap in God's knowledge, there is not predetermination, and thus God is not omnificent. If there was no gap in God's knowledge/foreknowledge at the moment of creation, then all acts are therefore knowingly and intentionally predetermined by God.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">11.<SPAN> </SPAN>Therefore all acts of humankind are predetermined and occur regardless of the appearance of choice/freewill, if God is omnipotent and omnificent.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">12.<SPAN> </SPAN>If God is omnibenevolent (<B>perfectly</B> good), then every act that God has control over or determines would be good and not evil.<SPAN> </SPAN>God would not knowingly and/or intentionally perform or allow the performance of any act that was not good, that is, evil.<SPAN> </SPAN>If God is omnibenevolent (<B>perfectly</B> good), and thus totally and completely abhorrent to and completely opposed to evil, and this omnipotent, omnificent God was in complete control and the determiner of everything that happens in the universe from the moment of creation, then nothing evil would or could ever exist in the universe.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">13.<SPAN> </SPAN>Since God is omnipotent, omnificent, and thus is in a position to unequivocally impose its omnibenevolence, then <B>evil does not and cannot not exist</B>.<SPAN> </SPAN>Hence, no acts by humankind are evil, but <B>all such acts are good</B>.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">14.<SPAN> </SPAN>Since evil cannot exist if God is omnipotent, omnificent, and omnibenevolent, the belief of humankind holding that evil exists is in grievous error.<SPAN> </SPAN>Evil cannot exist if God is omnipotent, omnificent, and omnibenevolent.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">15.<SPAN> </SPAN>Therefore, the acts of child torturers, rapists, and murderers are not evil, but good acts.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">16.<SPAN> </SPAN>Further, since evil cannot exist, the acts called evil in the Bible, the alleged word of God, are not evil, but good.<SPAN> </SPAN>Therefore the Bible is in error, and could not have been authored, even by proxy, by an omnipotent, omnificent, and omnibenevolent God.<SPAN> </SPAN>Therefore, the Bible is not the Word of this God, but a grand, but not evil deception of God since there is no evil – everything is good.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">17.<SPAN> </SPAN>The Problem of Evil occurs because many persons believe that evil exists, for example, the acts of child molesters.<SPAN> </SPAN>Since these acts of child molestation would not have occurred unless they were knowingly and intentionally predetermined by an omnipotent, omnificent God, then God cannot be omnibenevolent if <B>child molestation</B>, for example, <B>is evil</B>.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">18.<SPAN> </SPAN>If evil acts exist, then:</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A.<SPAN> </SPAN>God, if omnibenevolent (<B>perfectly</B> good), could not have foreseen nor prevented such acts or God would have, hence God is not omnipotent and/or omnificent.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">B.<SPAN> </SPAN>God is not omnibenevolent in that God knowingly and intentionally caused/causes evil acts to occur since God, if omnipotent and omnificent, could have prevented such acts of which he was the determiner.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">C.<SPAN> </SPAN>Therefore, <B>God cannot be omnipotent, omnificent, and omnibenevolent</B>.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">19.<SPAN> </SPAN>Once the premises are accepted asserting that this alleged God is omnipotent, omnificent, that evil exists, and this God knowingly and intentionally created the universe and everything in it, then it follows that God, given all the infinite choices open to it:</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A.<SPAN> </SPAN>Knowingly and willfully chose to create the universe in the way it now exactly exists, and</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">B.<SPAN> </SPAN>Hence, this God knew exactly everything (perfectly, to the last watermelon seed) what would occur as a result of its creation at the moment of creation, and <B>evil</B>, as we now know it <B>is God's creation</B>, and thus clearly demonstrates that God is not omnibenevolent.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">20.<SPAN> </SPAN>We are left with the unavoidable, but unpalatable-to-some conclusion that God cannot be omnipotent, omnificent, and omnibenevolent.<SPAN> </SPAN>We are then left with a host of problems created by that this clearly demonstrated insufficiency of God, if God as presently conceived by humankind, exists at all.</SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> </SPAN> </DIV>
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