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<DIV><FONT size=2>All this off-the-issue wrangling about Nazis distracts from
the real issue at large:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Big money/oil secretly makes a deal with Governor Otter, who
then dictates the terms of the deal to the sheep at the IDT on matters where
there are <STRONG>two major areas</STRONG> of great public impact and concern
and where the secret deal prevented serious discussion and
consideration:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><STRONG>1.</STRONG> Impacts of this secret
deal on citizens adversely impacted by the decision in many,
many ways.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><STRONG>2.</STRONG> Impacts of enabling a
project with huge adverse impacts, some of them fatal, on many people, the
environment, and the U.S. economy given the majority interests in the tar sands
projects held by China, no friend of the environment, public health, or of the
sense of fairness in international trade, patent, or currency
regulations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>The so-called Godwin rule of "whoever invokes the Nazis first
loses the argument" is itself a fallacy. Each argument must be considered
as a whole in relationship to the known probabilities and the argument's
language and structure. Accusing someone of Godwinizing is used mostly, as
in this case, to distract from the issues at large, and is a
invalid instance of the genetic fallacy. It is also a technique used
to quell freedom of expression by intimidation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I again express my disappointment at Moscow public officials
not having the knowledge, insight into their own powers, and the guts to oppose
this charade, not only because of the two areas of concern expressed above, but
also because of the public policy considerations of allowing citizens to be the
roadkill of a secret steamrolling secret deal about which they were
prevented from participating in an open, meaningful discussion and debate
over matters of serious importance to them. So much for the party of
freedom and respect for the individual.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>w.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=godshatter@yahoo.com
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</A> ; <A
title=v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">Saundra
Lund</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">'Vision 2020'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 13, 2011 8:17 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Questions About
Semi-Megaloads in Moscow</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Let me get one thing straight to Mr. Rumelhart and to the rest
of you<BR>lacking any sense of comprehension.<BR><BR>My reference to Nazis was
NOT aimed at Wayne Krauss.<BR><BR>My comment, word for word, . .
.<BR><BR>"Excusing Krauss because the megaloads weren't anywhere near US95
or<BR>Moscow yet is like justifying the Nazis as long as they knock on
somebody<BR>else's door."<BR><BR>The comparison I clearly drew was between
"megaloads weren't anywhere near<BR>US95 or Moscow" and Nazis knocking "on
somebody else's door."<BR><BR>If you really do feel like dragging this dead
horse around with you, how<BR>about taking to your buddies at teh sandbox,
ok?<BR><BR>'Nuff said.<BR><BR>Now, if you will excuse me, I have four hours of
Moscow Megaload Meeting<BR>videos to edit and post.<BR><BR>Tom
Hansen<BR>Moscow, Idaho<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>On Fri, May 13, 2011 7:34 am, Paul
Rumelhart wrote:<BR>><BR>> Believe me, I'm no fan of Newt
Gingrich. All I need to know about him<BR>> is that he pressed his
first wife for divorce while she was in the<BR>> hospital recovering from
cancer-related surgery, not to mention<BR>> committing adultery while
criticizing Clinton for doing the same thing<BR>> during the Monica
Lewinski scandal.<BR>><BR>> Anyway, the idea is that the first person in
an argument who compares<BR>> the other side to the Nazis loses the
debate.<BR>><BR>> Paul<BR>><BR>> On 05/13/2011 12:00 AM, Saundra
Lund wrote:<BR>>> Huh -- I wasn't familiar with that
term.<BR>>><BR>>> Since you cited the Wikipedia article ("has been
invoked for the<BR>>> inappropriate use of Nazi analogies in articles or
speeches"), then do<BR>>> you agree that hyperbolic "Godwin's law"
(which you obviously accept<BR>>> since you called it) is far more
appropriately applied to Nasty Newt<BR>>> Gingrich than to Tom
Hansen& to Ted Moffett (in his "Saint Augustine:<BR>>>
"Hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue"
response)?<BR>>><BR>>> Just wonderin'. .
.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Saundra Lund<BR>>> Moscow,
ID<BR>>><BR>>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is
for good people to<BR>>> do nothing.<BR>>> ~ Edmund
Burke<BR>>><BR>>> ***** Original material contained herein is
Copyright 2011 through life<BR>>> plus 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do
not copy, forward, excerpt, or<BR>>> reproduce outside the Vision 2020
forum without the express written<BR>>> permission of the
author.*****<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>>> From: Paul Rumelhart
[mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com]<BR>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:34
PM<BR>>> To: Tom Hansen<BR>>> Cc: Saundra Lund; 'Vision 2020';
'Donovan Arnold'<BR>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About
Semi-Megaloads in Moscow<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Wow, you've just
Godwin'd this thread by comparing this issue to the<BR>>> Nazis. See <A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law</A><BR>>><BR>>>
I'm not looking forward to having to wait an hour for these guys to
move<BR>>> a semi-megaload down the highway, but let's try to keep some
perspective<BR>>> here. We're talking traffic delays, possible road
damage, possible<BR>>> electricity outages, and one giant megacorp
putting a little more money<BR>>> in their giant coffers than they
otherwise would. Besides, if we "win",<BR>>> they'll just find a more
expensive way of moving these things and force<BR>>> the extra cost on
to the consumers.<BR>>><BR>>> I'm not saying you're not fighting
the good fight, let's just keep it in<BR>>>
perspective.<BR>>><BR>>> Paul<BR>>><BR>>> On
05/11/2011 11:02 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:<BR>>>> Excusing Krauss because
the megaloads weren't anywhere near US95 or<BR>>>> Moscow yet is like
justifying the Nazis as long as they knock on<BR>>>> somebody else's
door.<BR>>><BR>>>
<snip><BR>>><BR>>><BR>><BR>>
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