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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>OTOH, there’s this news story from two months ago:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41906800/">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41906800/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:23.0pt;color:black'>Child molester undergoes castration for parole </span></b><span style='font-size:19.0pt;color:black'><br></span><span style='font-size:15.0pt;color:black'>78-year-old man had to pay for the surgery himself<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:15.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>updated </span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>3/4/2011 11:11:01 AM ET</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><a href="http://ezurl.co/1438d01" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#336699;text-decoration:none'>PORT ALLEN, Louisiana</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#333333'>— A convicted child molester has undergone surgical castration in order to be released from prison on parole. <br><br>Francis Phillip Tullier, who had faced hundreds of molestation counts involving young girls, pleaded guilty to three counts in 1999 and was sentenced to 27 years in prison. He is now 78.<br><br>His lawyer, Nathan Fisher, said the deal stipulated that Tullier would only be eligible for parole once he underwent castration at his own expense.<br><br>A sheriff's investigator said the surgery was done Thursday after being delayed several years while Tullier was treated for various medical issues.<br><br>The Advocate newspaper reports that Tullier is due for release next week. He will live in Iberville Parish and has to register as a sex offender.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Art Deco<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 06, 2011 9:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> Vision 2020<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Angry Hens<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Tom,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Unless things have changed greatly without my notice, U.S. courts cannot order actual castration (cruel and unusual punishment). Even those offenders in the U.S. who would undergo voluntary castration or nullification are legally SOL. It is generally against the law for licensed medical professionals to castrate or to nullify anyone except for a very limited number of medical reasons.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>So-called chemical castration may be available in some jurisdictions, but the results of this are generally less effective than surgical castration, last only as long as the treatment continues, and may have some undesirable side effects.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Not only does legislation against voluntary castration prevent the treatment for pedophiles which is the most effective (though not 100% effective) therapy for sexual offenders, such legislation also prevents treatments for some very agonizing prostrate and other UT problems in older men -- a treatment that is available in many other countries.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>w.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" title="thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com" title="rforce2003@yahoo.com">Ron Force</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Cc:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" title="vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Friday, May 06, 2011 9:00 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re: [Vision2020] Angry Hens<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Just out of curiosity . . .<br><br>Does anybody know if court-ordered castration curtail the possibility of a<br>pedophile re-offending (especially in the case of a serial pedphile)?<br><br>Just a question.<br><br>Tom Hansen<br>Moscow, Idaho<br><br><br><br><br><br>On Fri, May 6, 2011 8:48 am, Ron Force wrote:<br>> I knew someone who unknowingly married a child molester. His mother didn't<br>> reveal his past, thought "he'd outgrown it", and of course, he didn't<br>> reveal his record (juvenile, and sealed). A couple of years into the<br>> marriage, she discovered he'd been molesting friends' children that they<br>> had tended. She turned him in to the police, and divorced him. He got a<br>> long stretch in the pen. She got a long stretch in psychotherapy, as did<br>> the kids. It destroyed her friendships and changed the course of her life.<br>> She eventually had to leave town.<br>><br>> Ugly stuff--I wish science or society had some answers.<br>><br>> <br>> Ron Force<br>> Moscow Idaho USA<br>><br>><br>> ________________________________<br>> From: Joe Campbell <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br>> To: Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>><br>> Cc: "<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 5:25 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Angry Hens<br>><br>><br>> Above, Paul writes: "I'm glad that his church elders are working with him<br>> in an attempt to improve his life."<br>><br>><br>> But that is the issue. HOW can the elders improve his life? What is the<br>> recidivism rate for sex offenders, child molesters? What is the recidivism<br>> rate for sex offenders or child molesters WHO RECEIVE TREATMENT? But<br>> somehow we're to believe that Doug Wilson can do better? Holy crap. This<br>> is the celebration ignorance gone too far.<br>><br>> Kai writes: "As I argued before, it is the community's right to choose<br>> what is socially acceptable."<br>><br>> But the pedophile shows that this view is BS. If the community says that<br>> it is socially acceptable for adults to have sex with children, the<br>> community is wrong. Period. No amount of philosophy is going to wreck this<br>> rule.<br>><br>><br>> This is the area where the right wing view of tolerance is shown to go too<br>> far. Church elders don't have the right to say that they are experts about<br>> human psychology merely because they are church elders. The idea that<br>> knowledge is socially constructed and that all viewpoints are equally<br>> valid is bogus and easily refuted (see pedophilia above). And dangerous.<br>><br>> And how dare either of you tell Rose and others to shut up! There are at<br>> least five of us who find this news interesting and who are thankful for<br>> it. And two of you who think it is unworthy of public discussion.<br>><br>> Let free speech reign and damn those who speak against it! Please use<br>> delete rather than edit the content of these pages.<br>><br>><br>><br>> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>><br>> wrote:<br>><br>><br>>><br>>>> (Sing along Kai, Paul, Dougie, Dale. You must know the words by now.)<br>>><br>>>As divisive as you guys seem to be, I still consider myself "on your<br>>> team", more-or-less. Meaning that I am far more liberal than I am<br>>> conservative, and have more in common with the "intoleristas" than I do<br>>> with Kai, Doug, and Dale. . We just disagree on a few things, most of<br>>> them having to do with the perceived importance of this one church. <br>>> Though I do acknowledge that I agree with Kai and Dale on some occasions<br>>> (I haven't seen Doug posting anywhere), mostly having to do with<br>>> financial matters. It would be nice if we didn't draw so many lines in<br>>> the sand. We might see areas where we agree, and actually learn some<br>>> respect for each other.<br>>><br>>>Paul<br>>><br>>>=======================================================<br>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>>> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>>> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>>=======================================================<br>>><br>><br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a> <br>> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> ==============================================================================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> =======================================================<br><br><br>"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to<br>changeand the Realist adjusts his sails."<br><br> - Unknown<br><br><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a> <br> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></body></html>