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On 04/02/2011 12:51 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTi=zo2Lbm5sDPcRvVD_jdWHooOFjatg9WjrpEOkH@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Short answer: Ask a black person this question. See
what he says. Then tell him why you think he has a fear of ideas.
See how far that dialogue progresses.<br>
<br>
Before I answer this question seriously, I'd prefer if you would
tell me the most painful part of your family history. Suppose for
instance that numerous folks in your family died of breast cancer.
Try wrapping your head around me saying "Why can't we even _talk_
about whether or not breast cancer is a good thing? After all
freedom of expression is a good thing. What do you have a fear of
ideas?" Can you imagine how insensitive that would sound? If not,
then pick another example. Keep trying until you want to punch me
in the face for saying what I said. Then you'll get it.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
The two most painful periods in my life were undoubtedly when my
mother died of diabetes and when my father died of leukemia, along
with some painful times dealing with some aspects of my mom's
condition as a family while growing up. I consider myself lucky
that those really were the worst experiences in my life. I've had
it easy in this life by many measures. So let's say that someone
came up with the idea that we should not try to cure people with
cancer or life-long diseases like diabetes. Their line of argument
would probably include references to how we're thwarting evolution
and that we are simply encouraging the destruction of our DNA as a
species over time. Let's say that there is another group of people
that thinks that all people with diseases like that are touched by
the devil and should be immediately killed. Let's also say that the
choice of whether or not to let these people speak openly about this
for some reason fell on my shoulders. Would I choose to keep them
quiet for fear of others coming to a similar conclusion and jumping
on the bandwagon, or would I choose to let them have their voice?<br>
<br>
I would choose to let them speak. There is a practical reason for
this, first, because if you try to shut them up they will just speak
their ideas behind closed doors and people who disagree with them
will not be there to counter their arguments. The main reason,
though, is that I truly believe in freedom of expression, even if
the topic of conversation is painful for me. I can still choose
whether or not to join in or to let them speak uncontested.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTi=zo2Lbm5sDPcRvVD_jdWHooOFjatg9WjrpEOkH@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<br>
I'm a Professor of Philosophy. That would be a strange profession
for someone with a fear of ideas. A better explanation of why you
can't see what's wrong with asking whether or not slavery is wrong
is that you are seriously lacking in empathetic imagination.
That's why I think it might benefit you to find your own personal
example and reason to my point of view via some form of analogy.<br>
<br>
Long answer: Kidnapping is clearly wrong. Putting someone in
chains, throwing them on a boat, and taking them to some other
continent is clearly wrong. Holding someone against their will is
clearly wrong. Forcing someone to work without pay is clearly
wrong. Beating an innocent person is clearly wrong. Rape is
clearly wrong. <br>
<br>
The history of American slavery is a history of kidnapping,
unwarranted incarceration, forced labor, physical violence, rape,
etc. To entertain the idea that slavery is not wrong is to
entertain the idea that nothing is wrong. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I don't disagree with you.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTi=zo2Lbm5sDPcRvVD_jdWHooOFjatg9WjrpEOkH@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<br>
Now maybe that is your view. Maybe you believe that nothing is
right or wrong. But why not just talk about that issue? Why wrap
it up in a conversation that is offensive to a great number of
people. If you're an idiot I would understand. Likewise if you
were part of some radical right wing group. You offer another
possibility: you could be completely lacking in empathy, a
sociopath who doesn't care whether or not he hurts the feelings of
others. I think that is covered by "idiot."<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Just to be clear about something, we are not talking about my views
on slavery. I have not expressed them in this argument. I do
believe in right and wrong, even if I don't think such things are
strictly black and white.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTi=zo2Lbm5sDPcRvVD_jdWHooOFjatg9WjrpEOkH@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<br>
So here is a revision of my technical term "idiot" in case I use
it again. An idiot is someone who is so lacking in common sense or
empathetic imagination that he is willing to say something that
even the below average person would know better than to say.<br>
<br>
Note that the quote I used by Wilson to begin this conversation
was this: "<font face="Times New Roman">The Bible
permits Christians to own slaves, provided they are treated
well." Clearly he can't adopt the view that there is no right or
wrong since slavery is only permitted by Christians if they
treat the slaves "well." And I don't think he's an idiot, given
the my technical definition. That leaves one option.</font> <font
face="Times New Roman">Unless I'm wrong and he is a sociopath.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Donovan stated that he supported freedom of speech and free dialog.
I back him up on that. You stated that people who tolerated talk of
slavery were either idiots or right wing nutjobs (paraphrasing). I
disagree with that. Donovan's point about free dialog is a good
one. If Doug wants to come on this list and argue his case re:
slavery, I encourage him to do that. Because otherwise, how are
you, or Donovan, or anyone else going to explain why he's wrong if
we never have the conversation? That's all I'm asking. It doesn't
even matter what the subject is, really.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
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