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<DIV><FONT size=2>Reggie,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Crabtree lost credibility a long time ago -- right from the
beginning when he failed to enter a meaningful discussion of free
enterprise/competition when he refused to address the issues, but slopped out
some irrelevancies.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>If Crabtree cannot justify or support his positions by
clarity of statements, facts, and arguments, he attempts contorted humor,
changes or fails to address the subject, gives irrelevancies, or makes other
attempts at dodging the issue. He has learned the craft of dissimulation
very well from his heroes at the cult.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I suspect that even some of Crabtree's cronies whom
he is trying entertain with his disguised-as-pseudo-humor, blatant,
cowardly evading the issues with those nasty leftists (who he cannot even
define clearly) sometimes laugh at him behind his back.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>It is too bad that there are not some thoughtful
conservatives on V2020 -- ones that understand that honest discussion demands a
certain amount of clarity, valid argumentation, and understands the
probabilistic nature of so-called facts and economic/political/social theories,
and who do not think that telling lies/making gross exaggerations and evading
the issues is the way to successfully justify their positions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>w.</FONT><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu
href="mailto:reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu">Reggie Holmquist</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=lockshop@pull.twcbc.com
href="mailto:lockshop@pull.twcbc.com">the lockshop</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 03, 2011 9:55
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [SPAM]Re: that
Jared guy and mental health</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>"I, on the other hand think it would be good if you gave it a
rest."<BR><BR>Or what? You'll call him "creepy" again? Or perhaps
tell him to "go pound sand"? You've lost credibility,
dude.<BR><BR>-Reggie<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:49 AM, the lockshop <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:lockshop@pull.twcbc.com">lockshop@pull.twcbc.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 15px"
name="Compose message area" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>"dysfunctional disclarity"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Dave Barry thinks that this would be a good
name for a neo-punk band.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I, on the other hand think it would be
good if you gave it a rest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228)"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com" target=_blank>Art
Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank>Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 03, 2011
8:17 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [SPAM]Re:
that Jared guy and mental health</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>The thesis is that you are not interested
in constructive dialog.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Your response gives more than ample
evidence of that. And also more than ample evidence of dysfunctional
disclarity.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>w.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228)"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jampot@roadrunner.com href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"
target=_blank>Gary Crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com" target=_blank>Art Deco</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 02, 2011
7:57 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [SPAM]Re:
that Jared guy and mental health</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2>"Either define "left" and "right" or enumerate those on the list
that you consider to be "right" and "left" so that people will not
have to attempt to reach the foggy recesses of your mind in order to
decide who's who in your opinion. </FONT><FONT size=2>Otherwise,
most will think you are pulling a Roger Falen by refusing to respond to
an issue in any meaningful terms except by repeating yourself using
different words and syntax."</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>While I find you mildly unpleasant and not a
little creepy, I don't currently believe you are stupid. Do you really
still imagine that insisting that I respond to to your demands
in precisely the manner that will please you is a productive use of
your time? Do you actually believe that I am concerned with what you and
your mythical "most" are thinking? If so, a drastic revision of my
opinion is in order.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face="Times New Roman">"I think that you
are cravenly refusing to define or enumerate "right" and "left" because
even in that dark back room of The Lock Shop you know that there is vast
disagreement among those you claim to be on the left on this list on
some very fundamental issues such as abortion, the death penalty, health
care, first amendment rights, gun ownership rights, religious freedom
and truth, the bailouts and other economic issues, educational reform,
drug policy, the desirability of unions, possible solutions to the
immigration problems, etc. " </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Oh no! Us cartoon characters in our dark back rooms prefer to
believe in monolithic stereotypes that never vary from the role to which
they are assigned. To wit:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The "right" = six gun toting, God fearing, courageous,
generous types who love America, Mom, and apple pie and feel truly
sorry for drug ingesting hippies who refuse to eat red meat and
have questionable hygiene. These stalwarts gravitate to professions such
as astronaut, super hero/costumed crime fighter, bronco busting, bull
riding cowboy of a decidedly non-brokeback persuasion, and double
ought spy.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The "left" = squirrelly, tofu munching, dope smoking,
atheist gas bags who march and wave placards in homogenous herds
and have never met a criminal, tree, or illegal alien that they
have not immediately wanted to coddle, hug, or provide welfare benefits
to. If they can be bothered to arise from their cannabis and/or
narcotic induced stupor to perform any semi-useful labor at
all they will normally be lawyers, collage professors (liberal arts),
bureaucrats, interpretive dancers, and mimes</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Does that satisfy your curious lust for definition?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Times New Roman">Something, something,
something...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Some hastily tossed off flippant response. Is it becoming obvious
that boredom is </DIV>
<DIV>beginning to set in? Gosh, I hope not.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Times New Roman">Blah, blah, reading
suggestions I'll immediately ignore, blah...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>zzzzz...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face="Times New Roman">"It's time to man
up and either respond to the issues in a way that would promote
understanding/clarification and possible resolutions, or man up and
admit that you are just another propagandist whose goal is not truth,
but attempts at persuasion exalting your personal
ideals."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Or what? you'll hold your breath, kick your little feets and pound
your teeny widdle fists? Listen, I get it. I really do. You want me to
take this forum more seriously. You want me to take you seriously. You
want me to read the books you recommend. You want me to discuss what you
want to discuss and you want me to discuss it in a manner that is
pleasing to you. I'm reading you five by five. It pains me to have to
tell you that there no chance your dreams are going to come true in this
regard. For the last time, here's the deal. You may feel free to
complain to your little hearts content but, I write what I write
for reasons that are my own. Demanding that I do something differently
or insisting that I respond to you in some specific way is a waste of
your precious remaining time on earth. Now go pound sand.</DIV>
<DIV> <FONT color=#000000 size=3 face=Calibri> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>g</DIV></DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245)">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"
target=_blank>Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:30 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank>Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [SPAM]Re: that Jared guy and
mental health</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Crabtree writes:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>'I don't really believe that there is
any real lack of clarity on this list as to where the "left" leaves off
and the "right" kicks in."'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Either define "left" and "right" or enumerate those on
the list that you consider to be "right" and "left" so that people
will not have to attempt to reach the foggy recesses of your mind in
order to decide who's who in your opinion. </FONT><FONT
size=2>Otherwise, most will think you are pulling a Roger Falen by
refusing to respond to an issue in any meaningful terms except by
repeating yourself using different words and syntax. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I think that you are cravenly refusing to define or
enumerate "right" and "left" because even in that dark back room of The
Lock Shop you know that there is vast disagreement among those you claim
to be on the left on this list on some very fundamental issues such as
abortion, the death penalty, health care, first amendment rights, gun
ownership rights, religious freedom and truth, the bailouts and other
economic issues, educational reform, drug policy, the desirability
of unions, possible solutions to the immigration problems, etc.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>And hence, any meaningful characterization of "left"
and right" would exclude or make very fuzzy their inclusion in the list
many you apparently think of as leftists. That this is so is
exhibited by many prior discussions on this list. So, to deny
such is either dishonest and/or cowardly. [Google:
"Over-simplification", "Over-generalization", and
Dishonesty".]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>'Also, the definition of "hate speech"
is absolutely clear. It's pretty much anything the left doesn't want to
hear from the right. Hate speech is defined by its source not its
content.'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>So if someone on the right says "the economy will do
better under conservative leadership," and someone you allege is on
the left disagrees, that's hate speech? What rot.
Again you offer no reasonable criteria to determine what hate speech is
except that it is <B>anything</B> one <B>particular</B> [the "left"]
group doesn't like about what another [the "right"] says. That
makes almost any political discussion of opposing views hate
speech.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>See: The Fallacy of Persuasive Definition:
<A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persuasive_definition"
target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persuasive_definition</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>It is not surprising that you again refuse to
participate in a meaningful discussion of the issues. That is your
style and fits your limited worldview from the window of the backroom of
your business. Your definition of "hate speech" is so prejudicial,
and it's lack of clarity greatly amplified given the lack of
precision of the meaning of "right" and "left" that it
tells readers a lot about you, but not much about the reality
outside of you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>"The never-ending insistence that
<B><FONT size=4>everything evil</FONT></B> emanates from the
conservative end of the spectrum and that the libs are long suffering
saints is hogwash and an endless round of competing lists will do
nothing to change that fact."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Another gross distortion/lie/exaggeration. Who
one the list said anything like that? Some have said that
violent rhetoric and hate speech is more common from pundits on the
right, but I do not see that anyone claimed that such practices where
exclusive to the right. So starting with a grossly false
O'Reillyism, you then negate the possibility of anyone giving any kind
of evidence that would might clarify or give weight to one side or the
other on the issue. What a dunce-like position!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Although you falsely accused Reggie of being foolish
because you disagreed with his characterization of three people on his
prior long list, and although your alleged counterexamples are open to
reasonable questions such as Andreas Schou has raised, it is you
that appears to be foolish, if not dishonest and cowardly when
you:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>[1] Refuse to define in any meaningful way what you
are talking about, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>[2] Use really cockeyed, prejudicial persuasive
definitions when you do deign to define terms, and </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>[3] Tell bald-faced lies about other's
positions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Perhaps your self-education might benefit from a
concentrated study of Wesley Salmon's concise, but incisive book
<I>Logic</I>. Or a careful reading of <I>Proofiness</I> by Charles
Seife might help you deal with some of your problems of
over-generalization and over-simplification.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>It's time to man up and either respond to the issues
in a way that would promote understanding/clarification and possible
resolutions, or man up and admit that you are just another propagandist
whose goal is not truth, but attempts at persuasion exalting your
personal ideals.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>w.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228)"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@roadrunner.com href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"
target=_blank>Gary Crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com" target=_blank>Art Deco</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 01, 2011
7:48 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SPAM]Re:
[Vision2020] that Jared guy and mental health</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>Interesting. You sound like
the kid on the playground who always wanted to tell everyone else what
the game should be, define the minutia the games rules, and
then become pouty when his expectations weren't met with regard to
being deferred to in all matters. Life can be a disappointment for
kids like that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT
color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>I don't really believe that
there is any real lack of clarity on this list as to where the "left"
leaves off and the "right" kicks in. (I don't consider myself a
proper member of the "right" but to make this easier for you
we'll pretend it's the case) The difficulty arises, at the very least
in the most current discussion, when those on the left want to pretend
to be Sunday's child where it comes to acts of violence and political
discussion that is less then demure. The never-ending insistence that
everything evil emanates from the conservative end of the spectrum and
that the libs are long suffering saints is hogwash and an endless
round of competing lists will do nothing to change that
fact.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>Also, the definition of
"hate speech" is absolutely clear. It's pretty much anything the left
doesn't want to hear from the right. Hate speech is defined by its
source not its content. When the same sentiments are expressed from a
liberal perspective it becomes passionate political discourse and a
sacred first amendment principal. From the right, pure incitement to
violence (even when none was voiced) to be quashed by any and
every means possible. Violent speech is funny in that when a
person hailing from the "right" talks of targeting a district,
defeating an opponent, or quotes the founding fathers the remarks are
an unequivocal, bold neon colored calls for assassination. When the
"left" explicitly hope for the death of Sarah
Palin and/or her children, pray for Dick Cheney's heart to give
out, and make big budget Hollywood movies glorifying the murder of
GWB, the speech is apparently translucent in the lack of notice
it receives.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>I hope that this gives you
"a clear and distinct idea" on where this cartoon character stands on
the matter at hand. Now, if you'd be so kind, could you go into a
little more detail with regard to my education? There is very little
that I find more fascinating then to hear the playground mope expound
at length on the topic of what he imagines my background to
be.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3 face=Calibri></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245)">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:deco@moscow.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com" target=_blank>Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 01, 2011 2:35 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank>Vision 2020</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM]Re: [Vision2020] that Jared guy and mental
health</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Calibri></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>A lesson to Reggie, et al:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>This dispute is on Vision 2020 is
driven by at least two things:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>1. The lack of
anywhere near agreement on the definitions of "right" v. "left" and
"hate speech".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>2. The apparent
inability and unwillingness of Falen/Crabtree to support their
positions with meaningful arguments. With Roger, it is the
apparent inability to understand what an argument is; with Crabtree,
it is the long demonstrated unwillingness <B>to engage in meaningful
dialogue</B> on any subject where his basic beliefs may be threatened
by facts and/or alternative values.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Reggie: When you put the list at
issue together, you offered evidence. One would expect those
holding an opposing views would offer a different list of at least the
same magnitude. Both Crabtree and Falen are unwilling to do
so. Forget meaningful dialogue.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>At some point, maybe one side or the
other would offer more clarifying definitions so that the dispute
could be better conducted by referring meaningful evidence.
Don't look to Falen or Crabtree for that either. It is too
threatening.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>I repeat the following without much
hope that either Falen or Crabtree will alter their self-satisfying,
but futile, churlish behavior:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff>'It may be wise to remember in a
discussion of values</FONT> [or any other subject] <FONT
color=#0000ff>the following paraphrase of a quotation from English
Philosopher John Locke:</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>"When comparing two ideas, it is
necessary to have a clear and distinct idea of each."'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Or its modern statement:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>"When comparing two statements or theories, the
clearer, less vague and ambiguous statement(s) of and definitions used
in each, the better the chance of meaningfully determining the truth,
or in the case of values, the correct application, or least
discovering the roots of agreement or
disagreement."</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Over many months of reading
Crabtree in action on V2020 I have thought that he might be the object
of a possible <I>Far Side</I> cartoon whose caption would be
"When self-education goes horribly wrong."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV><FONT size=2
face=Verdana>
<DIV><BR>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO Box 9421<BR>Moscow,
ID 83843</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:waf@moscow.com"
target=_blank>waf@moscow.com</A><BR>208
882-7975<BR></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228)"><B>From:</B>
<A title=lfalen@turbonet.com href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com"
target=_blank>lfalen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu
href="mailto:reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu" target=_blank>Reggie
Holmquist</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank>vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 01, 2011
10:52 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] that Jared
guy and mental health</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I hope that you had fun putting together this list, some of
which it would really be a stretch to call hate speech or necessarily from
the the right. It would almost seem that anything you disagree with is
hate speech or right wing. I don't much care if it is exactly equal from
both sides. suffice it to say that there is plenty on both. <B><FONT
color=#ff0000>I am not going to go tit for tat with
you.<BR></FONT></B>Roger<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV>
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clear=all><BR>-- <BR>There is a theory which states that if ever anybody
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