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<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Calibri>I would have a sliver of respect for your
point if you included so much as a <BR>single example of rhetoric that was not
from the the right. To endlessly<BR>drone that</FONT> "it's just as extreme to
say that the volatile political <BR>rhetoric of the radical right and the
climate it created, and the Palin poster <BR>in particular, had nothing to do
with the shooting." <FONT color=#000000 face=Calibri>and never once
include<BR>one of the multitude of examples that are just as prevalent on
the left.<BR>You are clearly trying to paint the maniac as, at least partially,
a product <BR>of the right and I'm having none of it so stop. Really, just
stop.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Calibri>g</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR></FONT>--------------------------------------------------<BR>From:
"Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe@gmail.com><BR>Sent: Wednesday, January 12,
2011 8:56 PM<BR>To: "Gary Crabtree" <jampot@roadrunner.com><BR>Cc: "the
lockshop" <lockshop@pull.twcbc.com>;
<vision2020@moscow.com><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Resolution for the
112th Congress (after the Tucson Tragedy)<BR><BR>> What exactly is the moon
beam claim? That a "nothing" claim is<BR>> extreme? And please stop with the
"wishful thinking" claim, which is<BR>> just repeating the insulting comment
that Tom posted from Rush, that<BR>> Democrats wanted this to happen. Have
you no decency? Really just<BR>> stop.<BR>> <BR>> I'll repeat what I
said, again, so it doesn't get lost in your<BR>> continued attempts to
distort my words: It is extreme to say Palin did<BR>> it and just as extreme
to say that the climate created by the rhetoric<BR>> of the radical right had
nothing to do with the shooting. The truth<BR>> lies somewhere in between.
Where? I don't know. I don't need evidence<BR>> that he saw the map to
support this claim, just to support the extreme<BR>> position you keep trying
to put in my mouth (which I do not hold).<BR>> <BR>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011
at 8:44 PM, Gary Crabtree <jampot@roadrunner.com> wrote:<BR>>> " I
think it is just as extreme to say that the volatile political
rhetoric<BR>>> of the<BR>>> radical right and the climate it
created, and the Palin poster in<BR>>> particular,<BR>>> had
nothing to do with the shooting. "<BR>>><BR>>> I might be willing to
accept this if there was even a shred of evidence<BR>>> that the
psychopath had seen the map or paid any attention to right<BR>>> wing
commentary. So far, the indications are that he didn't and your<BR>>>
claims appear to be made up of moon beams, fairy dust, and a heaping<BR>>>
shovel full of wishful thinking<BR>>><BR>>>
g<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
--------------------------------------------------<BR>>> From: "Joe
Campbell" <philosopher.joe@gmail.com><BR>>> Sent: Wednesday, January
12, 2011 8:28 PM<BR>>> To: "the lockshop"
<lockshop@pull.twcbc.com><BR>>> Cc:
<vision2020@moscow.com><BR>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Resolution
for the 112th Congress (after the<BR>>> Tucson
Tragedy)<BR>>><BR>>>> What is the uber left? What policies do
they hold? What are they<BR>>>> saying about Palin that is so
egregious? Be specific. Use quotes.<BR>>>><BR>>>> I know that
I've made some claims about Palin and the shooter, but<BR>>>> most of
my claims were distorted by you and by Roger. I never blamed<BR>>>>
Palin, for instance. I certainly never claimed that she was<BR>>>>
responsible in any way. It would be an extreme claim to say that
she<BR>>>> was an accessory, which I don't believe and never said. But
I think it<BR>>>> is just as extreme to say that the volatile political
rhetoric of the<BR>>>> radical right and the climate it created, and
the Palin poster in<BR>>>> particular, had nothing to do with the
shooting. In between the<BR>>>> extreme all and nothing claims are a
variety of more plausible views<BR>>>> and I haven't said which of
those I accept because I really don't know<BR>>>> what to say about
it.<BR>>>><BR>>>> You say "Stop trying to tarnish your
ideological 'enemies' with<BR>>>> reasons for a event that just are not
there." But this is such a joke<BR>>>> it is not funny. I'm merely
asking that Palin and others stop using a<BR>>>> "bullseye" to target
their political enemies, that the right stop<BR>>>> referring to
everyone on the left as a communist, that they stop the<BR>>>>
distortion and the over-the-top rhetoric. That we realize, as one
V<BR>>>> post put it, we are hovering around the same spot on the
political<BR>>>> compass. Again, there is nothing radical about any of
this and it is<BR>>>> precisely the very same request that you're
making. So I find that<BR>>>> ironic!<BR>>>><BR>>>>
Add to this that if I had political motives, what I'd do is keep
my<BR>>>> mouth shut wrt criticisms of Palin. What I'd try to do is get
her to<BR>>>> win the Republican nomination since she is one of handful
of people<BR>>>> that Obama has a chance of beating. She is simply not
electable. I<BR>>>> hope she does win the Republican nomination for
that very reason (but<BR>>>> she won't). So if I were playing political
gamesmanship I'd keep quiet<BR>>>> about her. I wouldn't criticize her.
It makes no sense to criticize<BR>>>> her if you're a Democrat and your
only concern is to get Democrats<BR>>>> elected. She is the best thing
for the party in years. But I'm out of<BR>>>> politics and have more
broad social concerns, like the well being of<BR>>>> our country. I'm
using this as an opportunity to try to get the<BR>>>> over-the-top
rhetoric to stop.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Lastly, wrt to your claims
about "surveyor symbols" that is just plain<BR>>>> stupid. I'm not
saying you are stupid since I don't think for a minute<BR>>>> that you
believe that story. So the fact that I don't believe it can't<BR>>>> be
a slight against me. No one believes that story, and we're not
all<BR>>>> members of the uber left. Even the folks telling that story
don't<BR>>>> believe it.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Here's a nice
article on the issue.<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2011/01/gunsights_or_surveyor_symbols.html<BR>>>><BR>>>>
At the end of this article there is a comment from Palin
herself,<BR>>>> tweeted after the election: "Remember months ago
'bullseye' icon used<BR>>>> 2 target the 20 Obamacare-lovin' incumbent
seats? We won 18 out of 20<BR>>>> (90% success rate;T'aint
bad)."<BR>>>><BR>>>> Nothing about surveying here from the
horses mouth. Try explaining<BR>>>> this! Or better yet, try dropping
this stupid fairytale altogether. NO<BR>>>> one is buying
it.<BR>>>><BR>>>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 5:25 PM, the
lockshop <lockshop@pull.twcbc.com><BR>>>>
wrote:<BR>>>>> The symbol means here, this place, this location on
the map. In other<BR>>>>> words<BR>>>>> this is a
district where we would like a Republican to be in office.
Sort<BR>>>>> of<BR>>>>> like X marks the spot. Why the
uber left keeps trying to make this<BR>>>>>
tragedy<BR>>>>> about Sarah and the right is really an unsavory
mystery. The shooter was<BR>>>>> crazy. Stop trying to tarnish your
ideological "enemies" with reasons for<BR>>>>> a<BR>>>>>
event that just are not there.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
g<BR>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe
Campbell"<BR>>>>>
<philosopher.joe@gmail.com><BR>>>>> To:
<nickgier@roadrunner.com><BR>>>>> Cc:
<vision2020@moscow.com><BR>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 12,
2011 4:46 PM<BR>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Resolution for the
112th Congress (after the<BR>>>>> Tucson
Tragedy)<BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>> Another
question: What possible meaning or significance could
surveyor<BR>>>>> symbols have? Why that
symbol?<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 4:26
PM, <nickgier@roadrunner.com>
wrote:<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> A note to Roger and
Gary:<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> When Democrats start
calling for "Second Amendment" solutions, then I<BR>>>>>>
will<BR>>>>>> consider your losing battle to make Democrats more
violent.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> If Palin meant those to
be surveyor symbols, why did she accompany the<BR>>>>>>
map<BR>>>>>> with the tweet "Don't Retreat, Reload"? Could it be
that the webmaster<BR>>>>>> couldn't find the cross-hairs symbol
that he really intended and
needed?<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>>
Nick<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> A RESOLUTION FOR THE 112TH
CONGRESS<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Whereas, the Pima
County Sheriff rightly said that violent rhetoric has<BR>>>>>>
consequences;<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Whereas, abortion
clinic doctors were marked with cross-hairs and “four<BR>>>>>>
doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic
escort<BR>>>>>> were<BR>>>>>>
killed”;<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Whereas, GOP Senate
candidate Sharon Angle and Tea Party leaders<BR>>>>>>
declared<BR>>>>>> that a “Second Amendment” solution may be
necessary for the Obama<BR>>>>>>
administration;<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Whereas, in
November of 2009 a person brought a handgun to one of
now<BR>>>>>> critically wounded Rep. Gabriel Giffords’ community
gatherings;<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Whereas, GOP
Vice-Presidential candidate Sarah Palin targeted 22<BR>>>>>>
Democratic seats with a symbol that Giffords, a gun owner, took
as<BR>>>>>> cross-hairs (the map was followed by a tweet that
said “Don’t Retreat,<BR>>>>>>
Reload”);<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Whereas, Gifford’s
opponent Jesse Kelley asked supporters to "shoot a<BR>>>>>> fully
automatic M16" to "get on target" and help "remove
Gabrielle<BR>>>>>>
Giffords";<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Whereas, on Fox
Business News Sarah Palin offered praise for Kelly: "I<BR>>>>>>
don't feel worthy to lace his combat
boots";<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Whereas, on January 12,
2011 four GOP leaders in Arizona, criticized as<BR>>>>>> McCain
supporters, resigned after violent threats from Tea
Party<BR>>>>>>
activists;<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Whereas, Giffords’
office was vandalized right after she voted for the<BR>>>>>>
Affordable Health Care Act;<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>>
Whereas, the U.S. lags other industrialized countries in mental
health<BR>>>>>> services, and Arizona ranks second to last in the
U.S.;<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Whereas, repeal of the
Affordable Health Care Act has no chance of<BR>>>>>>
passing<BR>>>>>>
Congress;<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Whereas, Americans,
sometime by polls of 2-1, support major aspects of<BR>>>>>>
the<BR>>>>>> Affordable Health Care
Act;<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Therefore Be it Resolved
that the repeal of the Affordable Health Care<BR>>>>>>
Act<BR>>>>>> be
withdrawn;<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Be It Further
Resolved that more funds be provided for mental health<BR>>>>>>
treatment;<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> And May It Further
Resolved that all Americans stop demonizing their<BR>>>>>>
political and religious opponents and refrain from using
violent<BR>>>>>> rhetoric<BR>>>>>> about
them.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> And Finally May It Be
Resolved that on the eve of the MLK Holiday all<BR>>>>>>
Americans attempt to embrace the ethics of non-violence that
Martin<BR>>>>>> Luther<BR>>>>>> King drew from
Mahatma Gandhi and his own Christian
faith.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>>
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