<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>There just are no examples of candidates or media figures who regularly refer to ALL conservatives as Nazis. There are plenty of analogous examples from the right.<br><br><br></div><div><br>On Jan 13, 2011, at 6:04 AM, "Gary Crabtree" <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">I would have a sliver of respect for your
point if you included so much as a <br>single example of rhetoric that was not
from the the right. To endlessly<br>drone that</font> "it's just as extreme to
say that the volatile political <br>rhetoric of the radical right and the
climate it created, and the Palin poster <br>in particular, had nothing to do
with the shooting." <font color="#000000" face="Calibri">and never once
include<br>one of the multitude of examples that are just as prevalent on
the left.<br>You are clearly trying to paint the maniac as, at least partially,
a product <br>of the right and I'm having none of it so stop. Really, just
stop.</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">g</font></div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">
</font><div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri"><br><br></font>--------------------------------------------------<br>From:
"Joe Campbell" <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Wednesday, January 12,
2011 8:56 PM<br>To: "Gary Crabtree" <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>><br>Cc: "the
lockshop" <<a href="mailto:lockshop@pull.twcbc.com">lockshop@pull.twcbc.com</a>>;
<<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Resolution for the
112th Congress (after the Tucson Tragedy)<br><br>> What exactly is the moon
beam claim? That a "nothing" claim is<br>> extreme? And please stop with the
"wishful thinking" claim, which is<br>> just repeating the insulting comment
that Tom posted from Rush, that<br>> Democrats wanted this to happen. Have
you no decency? Really just<br>> stop.<br>> <br>> I'll repeat what I
said, again, so it doesn't get lost in your<br>> continued attempts to
distort my words: It is extreme to say Palin did<br>> it and just as extreme
to say that the climate created by the rhetoric<br>> of the radical right had
nothing to do with the shooting. The truth<br>> lies somewhere in between.
Where? I don't know. I don't need evidence<br>> that he saw the map to
support this claim, just to support the extreme<br>> position you keep trying
to put in my mouth (which I do not hold).<br>> <br>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011
at 8:44 PM, Gary Crabtree <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> " I
think it is just as extreme to say that the volatile political
rhetoric<br>>> of the<br>>> radical right and the climate it
created, and the Palin poster in<br>>> particular,<br>>> had
nothing to do with the shooting. "<br>>><br>>> I might be willing to
accept this if there was even a shred of evidence<br>>> that the
psychopath had seen the map or paid any attention to right<br>>> wing
commentary. So far, the indications are that he didn't and your<br>>>
claims appear to be made up of moon beams, fairy dust, and a heaping<br>>>
shovel full of wishful thinking<br>>><br>>>
g<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>>
--------------------------------------------------<br>>> From: "Joe
Campbell" <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br>>> Sent: Wednesday, January
12, 2011 8:28 PM<br>>> To: "the lockshop"
<<a href="mailto:lockshop@pull.twcbc.com">lockshop@pull.twcbc.com</a>><br>>> Cc:
<<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Resolution
for the 112th Congress (after the<br>>> Tucson
Tragedy)<br>>><br>>>> What is the uber left? What policies do
they hold? What are they<br>>>> saying about Palin that is so
egregious? Be specific. Use quotes.<br>>>><br>>>> I know that
I've made some claims about Palin and the shooter, but<br>>>> most of
my claims were distorted by you and by Roger. I never blamed<br>>>>
Palin, for instance. I certainly never claimed that she was<br>>>>
responsible in any way. It would be an extreme claim to say that
she<br>>>> was an accessory, which I don't believe and never said. But
I think it<br>>>> is just as extreme to say that the volatile political
rhetoric of the<br>>>> radical right and the climate it created, and
the Palin poster in<br>>>> particular, had nothing to do with the
shooting. In between the<br>>>> extreme all and nothing claims are a
variety of more plausible views<br>>>> and I haven't said which of
those I accept because I really don't know<br>>>> what to say about
it.<br>>>><br>>>> You say "Stop trying to tarnish your
ideological 'enemies' with<br>>>> reasons for a event that just are not
there." But this is such a joke<br>>>> it is not funny. I'm merely
asking that Palin and others stop using a<br>>>> "bullseye" to target
their political enemies, that the right stop<br>>>> referring to
everyone on the left as a communist, that they stop the<br>>>>
distortion and the over-the-top rhetoric. That we realize, as one
V<br>>>> post put it, we are hovering around the same spot on the
political<br>>>> compass. Again, there is nothing radical about any of
this and it is<br>>>> precisely the very same request that you're
making. So I find that<br>>>> ironic!<br>>>><br>>>>
Add to this that if I had political motives, what I'd do is keep
my<br>>>> mouth shut wrt criticisms of Palin. What I'd try to do is get
her to<br>>>> win the Republican nomination since she is one of handful
of people<br>>>> that Obama has a chance of beating. She is simply not
electable. I<br>>>> hope she does win the Republican nomination for
that very reason (but<br>>>> she won't). So if I were playing political
gamesmanship I'd keep quiet<br>>>> about her. I wouldn't criticize her.
It makes no sense to criticize<br>>>> her if you're a Democrat and your
only concern is to get Democrats<br>>>> elected. She is the best thing
for the party in years. But I'm out of<br>>>> politics and have more
broad social concerns, like the well being of<br>>>> our country. I'm
using this as an opportunity to try to get the<br>>>> over-the-top
rhetoric to stop.<br>>>><br>>>> Lastly, wrt to your claims
about "surveyor symbols" that is just plain<br>>>> stupid. I'm not
saying you are stupid since I don't think for a minute<br>>>> that you
believe that story. So the fact that I don't believe it can't<br>>>> be
a slight against me. No one believes that story, and we're not
all<br>>>> members of the uber left. Even the folks telling that story
don't<br>>>> believe it.<br>>>><br>>>> Here's a nice
article on the issue.<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>>
<a href="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2011/01/gunsights_or_surveyor_symbols.html"><a href="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2011/01/gunsights_or_surveyor_symbols.html">http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2011/01/gunsights_or_surveyor_symbols.html</a></a><br>>>><br>>>>
At the end of this article there is a comment from Palin
herself,<br>>>> tweeted after the election: "Remember months ago
'bullseye' icon used<br>>>> 2 target the 20 Obamacare-lovin' incumbent
seats? We won 18 out of 20<br>>>> (90% success rate;T'aint
bad)."<br>>>><br>>>> Nothing about surveying here from the
horses mouth. Try explaining<br>>>> this! Or better yet, try dropping
this stupid fairytale altogether. NO<br>>>> one is buying
it.<br>>>><br>>>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 5:25 PM, the
lockshop <<a href="mailto:lockshop@pull.twcbc.com">lockshop@pull.twcbc.com</a>><br>>>>
wrote:<br>>>>> The symbol means here, this place, this location on
the map. In other<br>>>>> words<br>>>>> this is a
district where we would like a Republican to be in office.
Sort<br>>>>> of<br>>>>> like X marks the spot. Why the
uber left keeps trying to make this<br>>>>>
tragedy<br>>>>> about Sarah and the right is really an unsavory
mystery. The shooter was<br>>>>> crazy. Stop trying to tarnish your
ideological "enemies" with reasons for<br>>>>> a<br>>>>>
event that just are not there.<br>>>>><br>>>>>
g<br>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe
Campbell"<br>>>>>
<<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br>>>>> To:
<<a href="mailto:nickgier@roadrunner.com">nickgier@roadrunner.com</a>><br>>>>> Cc:
<<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 12,
2011 4:46 PM<br>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Resolution for the
112th Congress (after the<br>>>>> Tucson
Tragedy)<br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>> Another
question: What possible meaning or significance could
surveyor<br>>>>> symbols have? Why that
symbol?<br>>>>><br>>>>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 4:26
PM, <<a href="mailto:nickgier@roadrunner.com">nickgier@roadrunner.com</a>>
wrote:<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> A note to Roger and
Gary:<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> When Democrats start
calling for "Second Amendment" solutions, then I<br>>>>>>
will<br>>>>>> consider your losing battle to make Democrats more
violent.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> If Palin meant those to
be surveyor symbols, why did she accompany the<br>>>>>>
map<br>>>>>> with the tweet "Don't Retreat, Reload"? Could it be
that the webmaster<br>>>>>> couldn't find the cross-hairs symbol
that he really intended and
needed?<br>>>>>><br>>>>>>
Nick<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> A RESOLUTION FOR THE 112TH
CONGRESS<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Whereas, the Pima
County Sheriff rightly said that violent rhetoric has<br>>>>>>
consequences;<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Whereas, abortion
clinic doctors were marked with cross-hairs and “four<br>>>>>>
doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic
escort<br>>>>>> were<br>>>>>>
killed”;<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Whereas, GOP Senate
candidate Sharon Angle and Tea Party leaders<br>>>>>>
declared<br>>>>>> that a “Second Amendment” solution may be
necessary for the Obama<br>>>>>>
administration;<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Whereas, in
November of 2009 a person brought a handgun to one of
now<br>>>>>> critically wounded Rep. Gabriel Giffords’ community
gatherings;<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Whereas, GOP
Vice-Presidential candidate Sarah Palin targeted 22<br>>>>>>
Democratic seats with a symbol that Giffords, a gun owner, took
as<br>>>>>> cross-hairs (the map was followed by a tweet that
said “Don’t Retreat,<br>>>>>>
Reload”);<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Whereas, Gifford’s
opponent Jesse Kelley asked supporters to "shoot a<br>>>>>> fully
automatic M16" to "get on target" and help "remove
Gabrielle<br>>>>>>
Giffords";<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Whereas, on Fox
Business News Sarah Palin offered praise for Kelly: "I<br>>>>>>
don't feel worthy to lace his combat
boots";<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Whereas, on January 12,
2011 four GOP leaders in Arizona, criticized as<br>>>>>> McCain
supporters, resigned after violent threats from Tea
Party<br>>>>>>
activists;<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Whereas, Giffords’
office was vandalized right after she voted for the<br>>>>>>
Affordable Health Care Act;<br>>>>>><br>>>>>>
Whereas, the U.S. lags other industrialized countries in mental
health<br>>>>>> services, and Arizona ranks second to last in the
U.S.;<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Whereas, repeal of the
Affordable Health Care Act has no chance of<br>>>>>>
passing<br>>>>>>
Congress;<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Whereas, Americans,
sometime by polls of 2-1, support major aspects of<br>>>>>>
the<br>>>>>> Affordable Health Care
Act;<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Therefore Be it Resolved
that the repeal of the Affordable Health Care<br>>>>>>
Act<br>>>>>> be
withdrawn;<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Be It Further
Resolved that more funds be provided for mental health<br>>>>>>
treatment;<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> And May It Further
Resolved that all Americans stop demonizing their<br>>>>>>
political and religious opponents and refrain from using
violent<br>>>>>> rhetoric<br>>>>>> about
them.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> And Finally May It Be
Resolved that on the eve of the MLK Holiday all<br>>>>>>
Americans attempt to embrace the ethics of non-violence that
Martin<br>>>>>> Luther<br>>>>>> King drew from
Mahatma Gandhi and his own Christian
faith.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>>
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