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Both sides are apparently capable and willing to produce, ad nauseum, examples of harsh rhetoric spoken by those on the "other side". I daresay the points have been made, bad choices of words from right and left. Still, this could serve as a springboard for national reappraisal of the even nastier than the norm political climate. Which could be a very good thing. We seem to focus almost exclusively on another person's political leanings. And if they are not the same as mine, well obviously that person is to be scorned. Never mind the fact that if the two people were to share a discussion over lunch, coffee, or a beer, it's more than likely that a wealth of common interests could be found outside of the politics. I'm fully aware that I sound like the product of a union between Rodney King and Pollyanna, by the way. I'm getting old and sentimental. No doubt the shooter is quite mentally unbalanced, and probably can not be properly labeled as conservative or liberal, but rather (very) mentally ill. Which hopefully can open the door to discussion of how we as a country and a society can better deal with the very real and very medical problem of mental illness. I bet virtually everyone on this forum is personally familiar with that issue, whether a family member or friend. I in no way excuse the actions of this person, and if he gets the death penalty, so be it. But at the same time, we can learn to do better in dealing with the affliction. OK, I'm done.<BR> <BR>
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 14:20:42 -0800<BR>> From: vpschwaller@gmail.com<BR>> To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson<BR>> <BR>> Hmmmm . . . In 2004 the DNC posted an actual "Targeting Strategy"<BR>> <BR>> http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171<BR>> <BR>> More recently West Virginia Senate candidate Joe Manchin actually shot<BR>> the cap-and-trade emissions bill with a rifle.<BR>> <BR>> Even more recently Democratic advisor Mark Penn advocated Obama<BR>> "reconnecting" with the people through the Arizona tragedy, much the<BR>> same way Clinton "reconnected" through the Oklahoma bombing.<BR>> <BR>> Liberal Hollywood's movie "Death of a President” aimed at George Bush<BR>> <BR>> Postage stamps with a gun pointed at Bush's head<BR>> <BR>> "Abort Sarah Palin" bumper stickers<BR>> <BR>> Obama himself: “Whose ass to kick” "Bring a gun to a knife fight”<BR>> “Argue with neighbors, get in their face” “Gearing up for a fight”<BR>> “Hit back twice as hard” “My grandmother acted like a typical white<BR>> person”<BR>> <BR>> And the list goes on. Statements of the nature of "targeting",<BR>> "taking aim", "its a war" on and on, are used and have been used by<BR>> all political groups since probably the origin of "politics".<BR>> <BR>> I'll make it short and sweet: Citing conservative rhetoric as a fuse<BR>> for the shootings, or for inciting any violence for that matter, is<BR>> just stupid.<BR>> <BR>> GS<BR>> <BR>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe@gmail.com> wrote:<BR>> > Be fair and find the quotes Roger. I bet you can't. Prove me wrong.<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > On Jan 11, 2011, at 10:19 AM, lfalen <lfalen@turbonet.com> wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> >> I don't like those statements either and I quit listening to Gordon Liddey when he advocated using silhouettes of Bill and Hillary for target practice. To be fair though you should now make a list of similar statement made by people on the left. That list would be just as long or longer.<BR>> >> Roger<BR>> >> -----Original message-----<BR>> >> From: Reggie Holmquist reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu<BR>> >> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:31:43 -0800<BR>> >> To: the lockshop lockshop@pull.twcbc.com<BR>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson<BR>> >><BR>> >>> 1.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough<BR>> >>> so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never<BR>> >>> forget what these people stood for."<BR>> >>> 2.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> Senator Phil Gramm: "We're going to keep building the party until we're<BR>> >>> hunting Democrats with dogs."<BR>> >>> 3.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impreach him,<BR>> >>> censure him, assassinate him."<BR>> >>> 4.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> John Derbyshire intimated in the National Review that because Chelsea<BR>> >>> Clinton had "the taint," she should "be killed."<BR>> >>> 5.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to<BR>> >>> physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be<BR>> >>> killed, too."<BR>> >>> 6.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the<BR>> >>> New York Times building."<BR>> >>> 7.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> Bill O'Reilly: "ll those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we<BR>> >>> could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send<BR>> >>> over the FBI and just put them in chains."<BR>> >>> 8.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> Clear Channel radio host Glenn Beck said he was "thinking about killing<BR>> >>> Michael Moore" and pondered whether "I could kill him myself, or if I would<BR>> >>> need to hire somebody to do it," before concluding: "No, I think I could I<BR>> >>> think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be<BR>> >>> choking the life out -- is this wrong?"<BR>> >>><BR>> >>><BR>> >>><BR>> >>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:26 PM, the lockshop <lockshop@pull.twcbc.com>wrote:<BR>> >>><BR>> >>>> No "two wrongs" game being played anywhere I can see. In your earlier<BR>> >>>> posts you rather shrilly insisted that the "violent rhetoric" was a one<BR>> >>>> sided phenomenon emanating predominantly from the right and I offered a few<BR>> >>>> examples to show your error. Nothing more and nothing less. I did not<BR>> >>>> contend that anything was OK because the other side was doing it as well. My<BR>> >>>> reason for responding to you at all was that I think that using tragedy to<BR>> >>>> attempt to score cheap political points is not helpful to say the very<BR>> >>>> least.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> As to your question of where I stand on the issue, it depends on your<BR>> >>>> sensibilities and semantics. I have no real problem with analogy such as<BR>> >>>> Obama used nor with NSA's. On the other hand, if you say that BHO is evil<BR>> >>>> incarnate, is responsible for all that is ailling the country and must be<BR>> >>>> stopped immeadiately by any and all means possible, I think you've stepped<BR>> >>>> over the edge in the same way that showing photos of GWB with captions<BR>> >>>> saying 'assassinate this man' are over the top. One is analogy and the other<BR>> >>>> is incitement and it doesn't require genius to tell the difference.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> In any compitition it's natural to use terms of conflict such as beat,<BR>> >>>> fight, target, eliminate and so on and a reasonable person understands this<BR>> >>>> and doesn't read more into it then is intended. A lunatic might hear it and<BR>> >>>> do something awful. They might also hear something quite innocuous and<BR>> >>>> freak. Should we tip toe about and censor our every word so as not to set<BR>> >>>> off the nut balls? Or should the rhetoric police relax and realize that<BR>> >>>> the crazies will sometimes go off for reasons indecipherable by the sane.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> g<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> >>>> From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe@gmail.com><BR>> >>>> To: "the lockshop" <lockshop@pull.twcbc.com><BR>> >>>> Cc: "Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com>; <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >>>> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 2:37 PM<BR>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> Gary,<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> You keep playing this "two wrongs" game.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> I'd like to know where you stand on it. My view is that violent<BR>> >>>> rhetoric is wrong. It was wrong for Obama to make that kind of comment<BR>> >>>> if it was directed toward his political enemies. Just because I'm a<BR>> >>>> Democrat and voted for him doesn't make it right. What's your view? Do<BR>> >>>> you think it was wrong for him to say this and that such violent<BR>> >>>> rhetoric, directed at one's political opponents is wrong? Or do you<BR>> >>>> think it is OK for folks to say this sort of thing?<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> The view can't be that it was wrong for Obama but not for, say, NSA or<BR>> >>>> Palin. But which is: wrong for both groups or OK for both? I think it<BR>> >>>> is wrong for both.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:40 AM, the lockshop <lockshop@pull.twcbc.com><BR>> >>>> wrote:<BR>> >>>>> I assume that by violent rhetoric you would include comments made by<BR>> >>>> those<BR>> >>>>> who are the last word in "viable presidential candidate."<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>>> "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in<BR>> >>>>> Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly<BR>> >>>>> like a good brawl..."<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>>> I guess from now on instead of targeting voters, candidates, or positions<BR>> >>>> we<BR>> >>>>> will speak of humanely capturing them to returned to a safe area where<BR>> >>>> they<BR>> >>>>> can live out the remained of their lives surrounded by love and comfort> ><BR>> >>>>> g<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> >>>>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com><BR>> >>>>> To: <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:05 AM<BR>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson<BR>> >>>>>> Furthermore . . .<BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>> The ONLY person that should be held directly responsible for the murders<BR>> >>>>>> in Tuscon is Jared Loughner.<BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>> However . . .<BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>> The grandizing by Phelps of such heinous murderous activity as that<BR>> >>>>>> committed by Loughner takes on an even worse stench when coupled with<BR>> >>>> the<BR>> >>>>>> "target map" and comments like "Don't retread, reload" and "Second<BR>> >>>>>> amendment remedies" feed the imbalanced minds of those like Jared<BR>> >>>> Loughner<BR>> >>>>>> with a false sense of patriotism when they commit such acts.<BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>> Certainly, average, well-adjust people can easily distinguish between<BR>> >>>>>> controversial commentary and violent rhetoric, but . . .<BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>> How many Jared Loughners are we to confront before sources of such<BR>> >>>>>> rhetoric are called in to account?<BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>> Tom Hansen<BR>> >>>>>> Moscow, Idaho<BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>> On Mon, January 10, 2011 9:47 am, keely emerinemix wrote:<BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>> It took all of five minutes, Visionaires, for my conscience to to<BR>> >>>> remind<BR>> >>>>>>> me that describing even someone as evil as Fred Phelps as less than<BR>> >>>> human<BR>> >>>>>>> was wrong of me. I believe his works to be those of an evil man,<BR>> >>>>>>> something I can't imagine anyone not named "Phelps" would disagree with<BR>> >>>>>>> and something I think Scripture would affirm, but I used language in<BR>> >>>>>>> anger<BR>> >>>>>>> that I have criticized in others, and I'm sorry for it.<BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>> I trust that if Dale Courtney uses my initial Phelps post on his blog,<BR>> >>>>>>> he'll have the integrity to refer to this one as well.<BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>> Keely<BR>> >>>>>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com<BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>> From: kjajmix1@msn.com<BR>> >>>>>>> To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >>>>>>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:35:11 -0800<BR>> >>>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson<BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>> My brother in Tucson says that unmitigated barbarian evil in the form<BR>> >>>> of<BR>> >>>>>>> the Rev. Fred Phelps will descend later this week on the city as the<BR>> >>>>>>> first<BR>> >>>>>>> victims of the shooting will be released from the hospital and funerals<BR>> >>>>>>> for the dead will begin. Phelps will be praising God for the massacre<BR>> >>>>>>> and<BR>> >>>>>>> lauding the work of Jared Lee Loughner.<BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>> The description of Phelps above is mine; my angry and distraught<BR>> >>>>>>> brother's<BR>> >>>>>>> words were utterly unfit for quoting, just as Phelps' is utterly unfit<BR>> >>>> to<BR>> >>>>>>> claim the title "Reverend," or even the designation "human."<BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>> Keely<BR>> >>>>>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com<BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>><BR>> >>>>>>> =======================================================<BR>> >>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com <Vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >>>>>>> =======================================================<BR>> >>>>>>> =======================================================<BR>> >>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com <Vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >>>>>>> =======================================================<BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to<BR>> >>>> change<BR>> >>>>>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."<BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>> - Unknown<BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>><BR>> >>>>>> =======================================================<BR>> >>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >>>>>> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >>>>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com <Vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >>>>>> =======================================================<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>>> ________________________________<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>> >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<BR>> >>>>> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3371 - Release Date: 01/09/11<BR>> >>>>> 23:34:00<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>>> =======================================================<BR>> >>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >>>>> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >>>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com <Vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >>>>> =======================================================<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> ------------------------------<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>> >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<BR>> >>>> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3371 - Release Date: 01/09/11<BR>> >>>> 23:34:00<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> =======================================================<BR>> >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >>>> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >>>> =======================================================<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>><BR>> >>><BR>> >>><BR>> >>> --<BR>> >>> There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what<BR>> >>> the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be<BR>> >>> replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another<BR>> >>> theory which states that this has already happened.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> Douglas Adams<BR>> >>><BR>> >>><BR>> >><BR>> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> =======================================================<BR>> ><BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> <BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> http://www.fsr.net <BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> =======================================================<BR> </body>
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