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<DIV>It makes total sense. A 2/3 majority favors the minority who have something to lose. A 51% vote does not. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan J. Arnold</DIV>
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<DIV>--- On <B>Tue, 10/26/10, Joe Campbell <I><philosopher.joe@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe@gmail.com><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020<SPAN>] H</SPAN>JR 4 and 5<BR>To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com><BR>Cc: vision2020@moscow.com, "Reggi<SPAN>e Holmqui</SPAN>st" <reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu><BR>Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 7:23 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv84697785>This makes no sense. Is it better when 66.7% steal from the other 33.3%? How are the 33.3% "protected" by this process?<BR><BR>
<DIV class=yiv84697785gmail_quote>On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 6:31 AM, Donovan Arnold <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=yiv84697785gmail_quote>
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<DIV>A super majority is the only thing that keeps 51% of the people from stealing from the other 49%. It is what protects individual rights of minorities in this country, and keeps Constitutions from changing back and forth every other year. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan J. Arnold<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 10/25/10, Tom Hansen <I><<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Tom Hansen <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>>
<DIV class=yiv84697785im><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] HJR 4 and 5<BR></DIV>To: "Reggie Holmquist" <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu">reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu</A>><BR>Cc: <A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>, "Donovan Arnold" <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>><BR>Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 12:56 PM
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv84697785h5><BR><BR>
<DIV>Exactly.<BR><BR>Rule by majority is the basis for our representative republic.<BR><BR>Do away with the super majority!<BR><BR>The two-thirds vote is the primary reason why crucial issues are<BR>filibustered.<BR><BR>Tom Hansen<BR>Moscow, Idaho<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>On Mon, October 25, 2010 12:46 pm, Reggie Holmquist wrote:<BR>> I, too, am having trouble seeing why a 2/3 vote is democracy, but a<BR>> majority<BR>> vote somehow isn't. And since when is over 50% of the electorate a<BR>> "handful<BR>> of people?"<BR>><BR>> -Reggie<BR>><BR>> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Darrell Keim <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=keim153@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>keim153@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR>><BR>>> That was one of my thoughts upon reading D's comments this morning. My<BR>>> other thought was that D either doesn't like or doesn't understand that<BR>>> we<BR>>>
live in a representative democracy. We elect representatives to vote on<BR>>> things for us. D seems to advocate either:<BR>>> 1. A pure democracy.<BR>>> 2. More use of ballot initiatives (ala Tim Eyman in WA, or California).<BR>>><BR>>> I like our system of representative democracy, and prefer not to<BR>>> circumvent<BR>>> it with countless ballot initiatives. California would seem to be a<BR>>> good<BR>>> warning as to the dangers of too many initiatives.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Sue Hovey <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=suehovey@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>suehovey@moscow.com</A>> wrote:<BR>>><BR>>>> And since when is a required 2/3 yes vote democratic? Those of us<BR>>>> who<BR>>>> taught in antiquated school
buildings for 30 plus years can certainly<BR>>>> speak<BR>>>> to that....as could you who went there.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Sue<BR>>>><BR>>>> *From:* Donovan Arnold <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>><BR>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 25, 2010 11:58 AM<BR>>>> *To:* <A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>vision2020@moscow.com</A> ; ringoshirl <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ringoshirl@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>ringoshirl@moscow.com</A>><BR>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] HJR 4 and 5<BR>>>><BR>>>> "It's very limiting for these entities to need a 2/3 favorable vote<BR>>>> every time they need to make these purchases that
they need for their<BR>>>> operations."-S. Ringo<BR>>>><BR>>>> Democracy is so inconvenient isn't it?<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> I think it is good practice to have a 2/3 vote before incurring any<BR>>>> debt<BR>>>> and bad practice to let a handful of people rack up a debt for future<BR>>>> generations and others to absorb. I think if something truly is needed<BR>>>> and<BR>>>> debt needs to be incurred reasonable people will support it and it will<BR>>>> pass. We cannot just let hospitals go bankrupt and shut down let other<BR>>>> businesses, we need them.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Again, people should not keep handing over their money and rights to an<BR>>>> increasingly smaller number of people that may have other interests<BR>>>> than<BR>>>> your own in mind.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Donovan J
Arnold<BR>>>><BR>>>> --- On *Mon, 10/25/10, ringoshirl <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ringoshirl@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>ringoshirl@moscow.com</A>>* wrote:<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> From: ringoshirl <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ringoshirl@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>ringoshirl@moscow.com</A>><BR>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] HJR 4 and 5<BR>>>> To: <A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>>> Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 5:32 AM<BR>>>><BR>>>> Visionaries:<BR>>>><BR>>>> I support both of these. It's very limiting for these entities to need<BR>>>> a<BR>>>> 2/3 favorable vote every time they need to make these purchases that<BR>>>>
they<BR>>>> need for their operations. This does not affect Gritman.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Shirley<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> H.J.R. 4<BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> “Shall Section 3C, Article VIII, of the Constitution of the State of<BR>>>> Idaho<BR>>>> be amended to authorize<BR>>>><BR>>>> public hospitals, ancillary to their operations and in furtherance of<BR>>>> health care needs in their service<BR>>>><BR>>>> areas, to incur indebtedness or liability to purchase, contract, lease<BR>>>> or<BR>>>> construct or otherwise acquire<BR>>>><BR>>>> facilities, equipment, technology and real property for health care<BR>>>> operations, provided that no ad<BR>>>><BR>>>> valorem tax revenues shall be used for such
activities?”<BR>>>><BR>>>> Proposed Amendment to the Constitution of the State of Idaho: Section<BR>>>> 3C,<BR>>>> Article VIII<BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> Legislative Council’s Statement of Meaning, Purpose and Result to be<BR>>>> Accomplished of Proposed<BR>>>><BR>>>> Amendment:<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> This proposed amendment will allow public hospitals to acquire<BR>>>> facilities,<BR>>>> equipment, technology and<BR>>>><BR>>>> real property through a variety of means that aid the public hospital<BR>>>> operations, as long as the acquisitions<BR>>>><BR>>>> are paid for solely from charges, rents or payments derived from the<BR>>>> existing or financed facilities and<BR>>>><BR>>>> are not funded by property taxes. Under current Idaho
constitutional<BR>>>> provisions, public hospitals, as<BR>>>><BR>>>> subdivisions of the state of Idaho, have limited ability to incur debt<BR>>>> without the approval of a two-thirds<BR>>>><BR>>>> vote at an election held for that purpose. This proposed amendment will<BR>>>> provide a limited alternative<BR>>>><BR>>>> to that two-thirds vote requirement. The use of tax dollars to finance<BR>>>> these kinds of investments is<BR>>>><BR>>>> prohibited.<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> Statements FOR the Proposed Amendment<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> 1. The proposed amendment will allow Idaho’s public hospitals, which<BR>>>> are<BR>>>> primarily located in<BR>>>><BR>>>> small towns and rural areas, to invest in new medical
equipment,<BR>>>> facilities and technology to<BR>>>><BR>>>> better meet the health care needs of patients in their communities,<BR>>>> strengthening Idaho’s entire<BR>>>><BR>>>> health care system.<BR>>>><BR>>>> 2. The proposed amendment will help give public hospitals the resources<BR>>>> they need to attract the<BR>>>><BR>>>> best medical personnel, spur the economy by creating jobs, and increase<BR>>>> operational efficiency<BR>>>><BR>>>> through long-term contracts.<BR>>>><BR>>>> 3. The proposed amendment keeps in place the safeguards provided in the<BR>>>> Idaho Constitution in<BR>>>><BR>>>> two ways. First, no tax dollars can be used to finance these<BR>>>> investments.<BR>>>> Second, the amendment<BR>>>><BR>>>> strictly forbids obligating
taxpayers or any state, county or other<BR>>>> governmental entity with these<BR>>>><BR>>>> investments.<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> Statements AGAINST the Proposed Amendment<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> 1. The existing Idaho constitutional requirement mandating a two-thirds<BR>>>> assent of the voters before<BR>>>><BR>>>> a public hospital can enter into long-term debt is an important<BR>>>> safeguard<BR>>>> for all Idaho citizens.<BR>>>><BR>>>> 2. Adoption of the proposed amendment will limit the right of voters to<BR>>>> approve certain debt<BR>>>><BR>>>> incurred by the public hospitals.<BR>>>><BR>>>> 3. Changes to the Constitution should be made only for major issues of<BR>>>> interest to the state or in
the<BR>>>><BR>>>> event of a constitutional crisis.<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> H.J.R. 5<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> “Shall Article VIII, of the Constitution of the State of Idaho be<BR>>>> amended<BR>>>> by the addition of a new<BR>>>><BR>>>> Section 3E, to provide for the issuance of revenue and special facility<BR>>>> bonds by political subdivisions<BR>>>><BR>>>> of the state and regional airport authorities as defined by law, if<BR>>>> operating an airport to acquire,<BR>>>><BR>>>> construct, install, and equip land, facilities, buildings, projects or<BR>>>> other property, which are hereby<BR>>>><BR>>>> deemed to be for a public purpose, to be financed for, or to be leased,<BR>>>> sold or otherwise disposed
of<BR>>>><BR>>>> to persons, associations or corporations, or to be held by the<BR>>>> subdivision<BR>>>> or regional airport authority,<BR>>>><BR>>>> and may in the manner prescribed by law issue revenue and special<BR>>>> facility<BR>>>> bonds to finance the costs<BR>>>><BR>>>> thereof; provided that any such bonds shall be payable solely from<BR>>>> fees,<BR>>>> charges, rents, payments,<BR>>>><BR>>>> grants, or any other revenues derived from the airport or any of its<BR>>>> facilities, structures, systems, or<BR>>>><BR>>>> projects, or from any land, facilities, buildings, projects or other<BR>>>> property financed by such bonds,<BR>>>><BR>>>> and shall not be secured by the full faith and credit or the taxing<BR>>>> power<BR>>>> of the subdivision or
regional<BR>>>><BR>>>> airport authority?”<BR>>>><BR>>>> Proposed Amendment to the Constitution of the State of Idaho: New<BR>>>> Section<BR>>>> 3E, Article VIII<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> Legislative Council’s Statement of Meaning, Purpose and Result to be<BR>>>> Accomplished of Proposed<BR>>>><BR>>>> Amendment:<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> Currently, local governmental entities that operate airports and<BR>>>> regional<BR>>>> airport authorities cannot<BR>>>><BR>>>> incur indebtedness without the approval of a two-thirds vote at an<BR>>>> election held for that purpose. This<BR>>>><BR>>>> proposed amendment will allow local governmental entities that operate<BR>>>> airports and regional
airport<BR>>>><BR>>>> authorities to issue revenue and special facility bonds to acquire,<BR>>>> construct, install and equip land,<BR>>>><BR>>>> facilities, buildings, projects or other property. Voter approval will<BR>>>> not<BR>>>> be required to incur such<BR>>>><BR>>>> indebtedness, as long as the bonds are paid for by fees, charges,<BR>>>> rents,<BR>>>> payments, grants or other<BR>>>><BR>>>> revenues derived from the airport or its facilities. The use of tax<BR>>>> dollars to repay such bonds is<BR>>>><BR>>>> prohibited.<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> Statements FOR the Proposed Amendment<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> 1. Public airports should have the ready ability to construct needed<BR>>>> facilities, such as
terminals,<BR>>>><BR>>>> runways, parking structures and hangars, which provide travelers with<BR>>>> better services and<BR>>>><BR>>>> accommodations and attract industries to Idaho as long as the users pay<BR>>>> for these facilities.<BR>>>><BR>>>> 2. Political subdivisions and regional airport authorities need the<BR>>>> ability to efficiently address<BR>>>><BR>>>> operational needs as they arise. Adoption of this amendment will<BR>>>> provide<BR>>>> this ability without the<BR>>>><BR>>>> use of tax dollars to repay any debt or liability incurred.<BR>>>><BR>>>> 3. The inability of political subdivisions and regional airport<BR>>>> authorities to incur indebtedness and<BR>>>><BR>>>> liability without voter approval has been a contributing factor in<BR>>>>
driving<BR>>>> regional aviation-related<BR>>>><BR>>>> industries to conduct business in neighboring states. If the proposed<BR>>>> amendment is not adopted,<BR>>>><BR>>>> Idaho could continue to lose similar economic development<BR>>>> opportunities.<BR>>>><BR>>>> 4. Public airports are a vital part of economic development and<BR>>>> commerce<BR>>>> in the state of Idaho. In<BR>>>><BR>>>> 2009, aviation contributed an estimated $2.1 billion to Idaho’s<BR>>>> economy.<BR>>>> Properties and facilities<BR>>>><BR>>>> funded by special facility bonds will attract and expand industries,<BR>>>> such<BR>>>> as maintenance, manu<BR>>>><BR>>>> facturing<BR>>>><BR>>>> and cargo operations, which will create new jobs and foster economic<BR>>>>
development in<BR>>>><BR>>>> Idaho. Modern and efficient airports are essential to Idaho’s<BR>>>> prosperity.<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> Statements AGAINST the Proposed Amendment (H.J.R. 5 Continued)<BR>>>><BR>>>> *<BR>>>><BR>>>> 1. The existing Idaho constitutional requirement mandating a two-thirds<BR>>>> assent of the voters before<BR>>>><BR>>>> a political subdivision or regional airport authority can incur debt is<BR>>>> an<BR>>>> important safeguard for<BR>>>><BR>>>> all Idaho citizens.<BR>>>><BR>>>> 2. Adoption of the proposed amendment will allow political subdivisions<BR>>>> and regional airport<BR>>>><BR>>>> authorities to acquire, construct, install and equip land, facilities,<BR>>>> buildings and projects that
are<BR>>>><BR>>>> not specifically limited to airport operations.<BR>>>><BR>>>> 3. Buildings and land owned by the government are not taxed and<BR>>>> therefore<BR>>>> provide no revenues to<BR>>>><BR>>>> schools, cities, counties or other levying authorities. Adoption of the<BR>>>> proposed amendment could<BR>>>><BR>>>> result in an increase in property exempt from taxation.<BR>>>><BR>>>> 4. Changes to the Constitution should be made only for major issues of<BR>>>> interest to the entire state<BR>>>><BR>>>> or in the event of a constitutional crisis.<BR>>>><BR>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>>>><BR>>>> =======================================================<BR>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>>> serving the communities
of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>>> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>>>> mailto:<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Vision2020@moscow.com</A><<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com</A>><BR>>>> =======================================================<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> ------------------------------<BR>>>> =======================================================<BR>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>>>
<A href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>>>> mailto:<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>>> =======================================================<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> =======================================================<BR>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>>> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>>>> mailto:<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>>> =======================================================<BR>>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> =======================================================<BR>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>>> mailto:<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>> =======================================================<BR>>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> --<BR>> There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what<BR>> the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be<BR>> replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another<BR>> theory which states that this has already happened.<BR>><BR>> Douglas Adams<BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>> mailto:<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>> =======================================================<BR><BR><BR>"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change<BR>and the Realist adjusts his sails."<BR><BR>-
Unknown<BR><BR><BR>=======================================================<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A> <BR> mailto:<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>=======================================================<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR>=======================================================<BR> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>
<A href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR> mailto:<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>=======================================================<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>=======================================================<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/" target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A> <BR> mailto:<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>=======================================================</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>