Are you writing the sequel to 1984?<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:58 AM, Donovan Arnold <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="font:inherit"><div>Joe,</div>
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<div>It makes total sense. A 2/3 majority favors the minority who have something to lose. A 51% vote does not. </div>
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<div>Donovan J. Arnold</div>
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<div>--- On <b>Tue, 10/26/10, Joe Campbell <i><<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style="border-left:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px"><br>From: Joe Campbell <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020<span>] H</span>JR 4 and 5<br>
To: "Donovan Arnold" <<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>, "Reggi<span>e Holmqui</span>st" <<a href="mailto:reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu" target="_blank">reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu</a>><br>
Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 7:23 AM<br><br>
<div>This makes no sense. Is it better when 66.7% steal from the other 33.3%? How are the 33.3% "protected" by this process?<br><br>
<div>On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 6:31 AM, Donovan Arnold <span dir="ltr"><<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div>A super majority is the only thing that keeps 51% of the people from stealing from the other 49%. It is what protects individual rights of minorities in this country, and keeps Constitutions from changing back and forth every other year. </div>
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<div>Donovan J. Arnold<br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 10/25/10, Tom Hansen <i><<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">thansen@moscow.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br>
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<blockquote style="border-left:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px"><br>From: Tom Hansen <<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">thansen@moscow.com</a>>
<div><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] HJR 4 and 5<br></div>To: "Reggie Holmquist" <<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">reggieholmquist@u.boisestate.edu</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>, "Donovan Arnold" <<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 12:56 PM
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<div>Exactly.<br><br>Rule by majority is the basis for our representative republic.<br><br>Do away with the super majority!<br><br>The two-thirds vote is the primary reason why crucial issues are<br>filibustered.<br><br>
Tom Hansen<br>Moscow, Idaho<br><br><br><br><br>On Mon, October 25, 2010 12:46 pm, Reggie Holmquist wrote:<br>> I, too, am having trouble seeing why a 2/3 vote is democracy, but a<br>> majority<br>> vote somehow isn't. And since when is over 50% of the electorate a<br>
> "handful<br>> of people?"<br>><br>> -Reggie<br>><br>> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Darrell Keim <<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=keim153@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">keim153@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>>> That was one of my thoughts upon reading D's comments this morning. My<br>>> other thought was that D either doesn't like or doesn't understand that<br>>> we<br>>>
live in a representative democracy. We elect representatives to vote on<br>>> things for us. D seems to advocate either:<br>>> 1. A pure democracy.<br>>> 2. More use of ballot initiatives (ala Tim Eyman in WA, or California).<br>
>><br>>> I like our system of representative democracy, and prefer not to<br>>> circumvent<br>>> it with countless ballot initiatives. California would seem to be a<br>>> good<br>>> warning as to the dangers of too many initiatives.<br>
>><br>>><br>>><br>>> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Sue Hovey <<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=suehovey@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">suehovey@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>>>> And since when is a required 2/3 yes vote democratic? Those of us<br>>>> who<br>>>> taught in antiquated school
buildings for 30 plus years can certainly<br>>>> speak<br>>>> to that....as could you who went there.<br>>>><br>>>> Sue<br>>>><br>>>> *From:* Donovan Arnold <<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>><br>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 25, 2010 11:58 AM<br>>>> *To:* <a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a> ; ringoshirl <<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ringoshirl@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ringoshirl@moscow.com</a>><br>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] HJR 4 and 5<br>>>><br>>>> "It's very limiting for these entities to need a 2/3 favorable vote<br>>>> every time they need to make these purchases that
they need for their<br>>>> operations."-S. Ringo<br>>>><br>>>> Democracy is so inconvenient isn't it?<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> I think it is good practice to have a 2/3 vote before incurring any<br>
>>> debt<br>>>> and bad practice to let a handful of people rack up a debt for future<br>>>> generations and others to absorb. I think if something truly is needed<br>>>> and<br>>>> debt needs to be incurred reasonable people will support it and it will<br>
>>> pass. We cannot just let hospitals go bankrupt and shut down let other<br>>>> businesses, we need them.<br>>>><br>>>> Again, people should not keep handing over their money and rights to an<br>
>>> increasingly smaller number of people that may have other interests<br>>>> than<br>>>> your own in mind.<br>>>><br>>>> Donovan J
Arnold<br>>>><br>>>> --- On *Mon, 10/25/10, ringoshirl <<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ringoshirl@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ringoshirl@moscow.com</a>>* wrote:<br>
>>><br>>>><br>>>> From: ringoshirl <<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ringoshirl@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ringoshirl@moscow.com</a>><br>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] HJR 4 and 5<br>
>>> To: <a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>>> Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 5:32 AM<br>>>><br>
>>> Visionaries:<br>>>><br>>>> I support both of these. It's very limiting for these entities to need<br>>>> a<br>>>> 2/3 favorable vote every time they need to make these purchases that<br>
>>>
they<br>>>> need for their operations. This does not affect Gritman.<br>>>><br>>>> Shirley<br>>>><br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> H.J.R. 4<br>>>> *<br>>>><br>
>>> “Shall Section 3C, Article VIII, of the Constitution of the State of<br>>>> Idaho<br>>>> be amended to authorize<br>>>><br>>>> public hospitals, ancillary to their operations and in furtherance of<br>
>>> health care needs in their service<br>>>><br>>>> areas, to incur indebtedness or liability to purchase, contract, lease<br>>>> or<br>>>> construct or otherwise acquire<br>>>><br>
>>> facilities, equipment, technology and real property for health care<br>>>> operations, provided that no ad<br>>>><br>>>> valorem tax revenues shall be used for such
activities?”<br>>>><br>>>> Proposed Amendment to the Constitution of the State of Idaho: Section<br>>>> 3C,<br>>>> Article VIII<br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> Legislative Council’s Statement of Meaning, Purpose and Result to be<br>
>>> Accomplished of Proposed<br>>>><br>>>> Amendment:<br>>>><br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> This proposed amendment will allow public hospitals to acquire<br>>>> facilities,<br>
>>> equipment, technology and<br>>>><br>>>> real property through a variety of means that aid the public hospital<br>>>> operations, as long as the acquisitions<br>>>><br>>>> are paid for solely from charges, rents or payments derived from the<br>
>>> existing or financed facilities and<br>>>><br>>>> are not funded by property taxes. Under current Idaho
constitutional<br>>>> provisions, public hospitals, as<br>>>><br>>>> subdivisions of the state of Idaho, have limited ability to incur debt<br>>>> without the approval of a two-thirds<br>
>>><br>>>> vote at an election held for that purpose. This proposed amendment will<br>>>> provide a limited alternative<br>>>><br>>>> to that two-thirds vote requirement. The use of tax dollars to finance<br>
>>> these kinds of investments is<br>>>><br>>>> prohibited.<br>>>><br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> Statements FOR the Proposed Amendment<br>>>><br>>>> *<br>
>>><br>>>> 1. The proposed amendment will allow Idaho’s public hospitals, which<br>>>> are<br>>>> primarily located in<br>>>><br>>>> small towns and rural areas, to invest in new medical
equipment,<br>>>> facilities and technology to<br>>>><br>>>> better meet the health care needs of patients in their communities,<br>>>> strengthening Idaho’s entire<br>>>><br>
>>> health care system.<br>>>><br>>>> 2. The proposed amendment will help give public hospitals the resources<br>>>> they need to attract the<br>>>><br>>>> best medical personnel, spur the economy by creating jobs, and increase<br>
>>> operational efficiency<br>>>><br>>>> through long-term contracts.<br>>>><br>>>> 3. The proposed amendment keeps in place the safeguards provided in the<br>>>> Idaho Constitution in<br>
>>><br>>>> two ways. First, no tax dollars can be used to finance these<br>>>> investments.<br>>>> Second, the amendment<br>>>><br>>>> strictly forbids obligating
taxpayers or any state, county or other<br>>>> governmental entity with these<br>>>><br>>>> investments.<br>>>><br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> Statements AGAINST the Proposed Amendment<br>
>>><br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> 1. The existing Idaho constitutional requirement mandating a two-thirds<br>>>> assent of the voters before<br>>>><br>>>> a public hospital can enter into long-term debt is an important<br>
>>> safeguard<br>>>> for all Idaho citizens.<br>>>><br>>>> 2. Adoption of the proposed amendment will limit the right of voters to<br>>>> approve certain debt<br>>>><br>
>>> incurred by the public hospitals.<br>>>><br>>>> 3. Changes to the Constitution should be made only for major issues of<br>>>> interest to the state or in
the<br>>>><br>>>> event of a constitutional crisis.<br>>>><br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> H.J.R. 5<br>>>><br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> “Shall Article VIII, of the Constitution of the State of Idaho be<br>
>>> amended<br>>>> by the addition of a new<br>>>><br>>>> Section 3E, to provide for the issuance of revenue and special facility<br>>>> bonds by political subdivisions<br>>>><br>
>>> of the state and regional airport authorities as defined by law, if<br>>>> operating an airport to acquire,<br>>>><br>>>> construct, install, and equip land, facilities, buildings, projects or<br>
>>> other property, which are hereby<br>>>><br>>>> deemed to be for a public purpose, to be financed for, or to be leased,<br>>>> sold or otherwise disposed
of<br>>>><br>>>> to persons, associations or corporations, or to be held by the<br>>>> subdivision<br>>>> or regional airport authority,<br>>>><br>>>> and may in the manner prescribed by law issue revenue and special<br>
>>> facility<br>>>> bonds to finance the costs<br>>>><br>>>> thereof; provided that any such bonds shall be payable solely from<br>>>> fees,<br>>>> charges, rents, payments,<br>
>>><br>>>> grants, or any other revenues derived from the airport or any of its<br>>>> facilities, structures, systems, or<br>>>><br>>>> projects, or from any land, facilities, buildings, projects or other<br>
>>> property financed by such bonds,<br>>>><br>>>> and shall not be secured by the full faith and credit or the taxing<br>>>> power<br>>>> of the subdivision or
regional<br>>>><br>>>> airport authority?”<br>>>><br>>>> Proposed Amendment to the Constitution of the State of Idaho: New<br>>>> Section<br>>>> 3E, Article VIII<br>
>>><br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> Legislative Council’s Statement of Meaning, Purpose and Result to be<br>>>> Accomplished of Proposed<br>>>><br>>>> Amendment:<br>>>><br>
>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> Currently, local governmental entities that operate airports and<br>>>> regional<br>>>> airport authorities cannot<br>>>><br>>>> incur indebtedness without the approval of a two-thirds vote at an<br>
>>> election held for that purpose. This<br>>>><br>>>> proposed amendment will allow local governmental entities that operate<br>>>> airports and regional
airport<br>>>><br>>>> authorities to issue revenue and special facility bonds to acquire,<br>>>> construct, install and equip land,<br>>>><br>>>> facilities, buildings, projects or other property. Voter approval will<br>
>>> not<br>>>> be required to incur such<br>>>><br>>>> indebtedness, as long as the bonds are paid for by fees, charges,<br>>>> rents,<br>>>> payments, grants or other<br>
>>><br>>>> revenues derived from the airport or its facilities. The use of tax<br>>>> dollars to repay such bonds is<br>>>><br>>>> prohibited.<br>>>><br>>>> *<br>
>>><br>>>> Statements FOR the Proposed Amendment<br>>>><br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> 1. Public airports should have the ready ability to construct needed<br>>>> facilities, such as
terminals,<br>>>><br>>>> runways, parking structures and hangars, which provide travelers with<br>>>> better services and<br>>>><br>>>> accommodations and attract industries to Idaho as long as the users pay<br>
>>> for these facilities.<br>>>><br>>>> 2. Political subdivisions and regional airport authorities need the<br>>>> ability to efficiently address<br>>>><br>>>> operational needs as they arise. Adoption of this amendment will<br>
>>> provide<br>>>> this ability without the<br>>>><br>>>> use of tax dollars to repay any debt or liability incurred.<br>>>><br>>>> 3. The inability of political subdivisions and regional airport<br>
>>> authorities to incur indebtedness and<br>>>><br>>>> liability without voter approval has been a contributing factor in<br>>>>
driving<br>>>> regional aviation-related<br>>>><br>>>> industries to conduct business in neighboring states. If the proposed<br>>>> amendment is not adopted,<br>>>><br>>>> Idaho could continue to lose similar economic development<br>
>>> opportunities.<br>>>><br>>>> 4. Public airports are a vital part of economic development and<br>>>> commerce<br>>>> in the state of Idaho. In<br>>>><br>>>> 2009, aviation contributed an estimated $2.1 billion to Idaho’s<br>
>>> economy.<br>>>> Properties and facilities<br>>>><br>>>> funded by special facility bonds will attract and expand industries,<br>>>> such<br>>>> as maintenance, manu<br>
>>><br>>>> facturing<br>>>><br>>>> and cargo operations, which will create new jobs and foster economic<br>>>>
development in<br>>>><br>>>> Idaho. Modern and efficient airports are essential to Idaho’s<br>>>> prosperity.<br>>>><br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> Statements AGAINST the Proposed Amendment (H.J.R. 5 Continued)<br>
>>><br>>>> *<br>>>><br>>>> 1. The existing Idaho constitutional requirement mandating a two-thirds<br>>>> assent of the voters before<br>>>><br>>>> a political subdivision or regional airport authority can incur debt is<br>
>>> an<br>>>> important safeguard for<br>>>><br>>>> all Idaho citizens.<br>>>><br>>>> 2. Adoption of the proposed amendment will allow political subdivisions<br>>>> and regional airport<br>
>>><br>>>> authorities to acquire, construct, install and equip land, facilities,<br>>>> buildings and projects that
are<br>>>><br>>>> not specifically limited to airport operations.<br>>>><br>>>> 3. Buildings and land owned by the government are not taxed and<br>>>> therefore<br>>>> provide no revenues to<br>
>>><br>>>> schools, cities, counties or other levying authorities. Adoption of the<br>>>> proposed amendment could<br>>>><br>>>> result in an increase in property exempt from taxation.<br>
>>><br>>>> 4. Changes to the Constitution should be made only for major issues of<br>>>> interest to the entire state<br>>>><br>>>> or in the event of a constitutional crisis.<br>
>>><br>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>>>><br>>>> =======================================================<br>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
>>> serving the communities
of the Palouse since 1994.<br>>>> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>>>> mailto:<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
>>> =======================================================<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> ------------------------------<br>>>> =======================================================<br>
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>>>>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>>>> mailto:<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>>> =======================================================<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> =======================================================<br>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>>>> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>>>> mailto:<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>>> =======================================================<br>>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> =======================================================<br>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>>> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>>> mailto:<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>> =======================================================<br>>><br>><br>><br>><br>> --<br>> There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what<br>> the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be<br>> replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another<br>> theory which states that this has already happened.<br>><br>> Douglas Adams<br>> =======================================================<br>
> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
> mailto:<a href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> =======================================================<br>
<br><br>"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change<br>and the Realist adjusts his sails."<br><br>-
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