<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>I'm going down Roger's road, Wayne, not mine; carrying his reasoning to its logical conclusion. I don't see how we can be literalists about the first amendment without being literalists about the second.</div><div><br></div><div>On the other hand, if we carry your point to its logical conclusion, folks should be allowed to purchase tanks!<br><br><br></div><div><br>On Oct 25, 2010, at 4:58 PM, Wayne Price <<a href="mailto:bear@moscow.com">bear@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Joe,<div><br></div><div>You really don't want to go down that road. </div><div><br></div><div>"<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">The very arms that the amendment addresses are those that can and are carried by the armed forces. </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">Wayne</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "><br></span></div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; "></span><div><div>On Oct 25, 2010, at 4:47 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>No where in the constitution does it say that individuals have a right to bear semi-automatic rifles.<br><br>So you must be for gun control, Roger!<br><br><br>On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:56 AM, lfalen <<a href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com"><a href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</a></a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">The First Amendment<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,or prohibiting the free exercise there of; or abridging the freedom of speech,or of the press,or the right of people peaceably to assemble, and or to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">No where is there any thing said about the separation of church and state. What it says is that no state religion is to be established and that every one has the right to express their religious beliefs or lack there of. The "separation of church and state" comes from an article written by Thomas Jefferson in which he said "There should be a wall of separation between church and state" ,but it no where in the Constitution.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Roger<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-----Original message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: "Art Deco" <a href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</a></a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:24:30 -0700<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: "Vision 2020" <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: [Vision2020] Leonard Pitts Jr: The Triumph of Igorance<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">LEONARD PITTS JR.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">We don't deserve this<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ..."<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">- from the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States That's for Christine O'Donnell.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"Where in the Constitution is separation of church and state?" she asked last week, drawing gasps and astonished laughter from an audience of law school students.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Chris Coons, her Democratic opponent for a Delaware Senate seat, replied that in asking the question, O'Donnell shows "fundamental misunderstanding of what our Constitution is. ... The First Amendment establishes the separation ..."<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">O'Donnell wasn't buying it.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"The First Amendment does? ...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">So you're telling me that the separation of church and state, the phrase 'separation of church and state,' is found in the First Amendment?"<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">It was a bizarre exchange that permits but two conclusions. One, O'Donnell is frighteningly ignorant, particularly for a woman who claims constitutional expertise and aspires to the Senate. Or, two, assuming you buy her after-the-fact explanation (she was merely observing that the phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the First Amendment), she is terribly disingenuous.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">After all, the framers' intention to isolate church from state and vice versa is evident in the amendment's wording and is a matter of long-settled law, besides. The phrase "freedom of expression" doesn't appear in the First Amendment, either.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Would O'Donnell question that right, too?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Maybe I shouldn't ask.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">While one is appalled by O'Donnell's ignorance and/or disingenuousness, one is not surprised. The capacity to be surprised by her died long ago, victim of revelations that she once "dabbled" in witchcraft.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And was the subject of an IRS lien. And said people with AIDS brought the disease upon themselves. And was sued for nonpayment by her college and mortgage company. And was cited eight times by the Federal Elections Commission. And thinks scientists have created mice with human brains.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">That this woman is a major party candidate for national office, that she is among the brightest stars of a constellation of like-minded cranks - some of them already in office - tells you all you need to know about this moment in our political life. Welcome to the United States of Amnesia.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Somehow we have forgotten the lesson we spent most of the last decade learning at ruinous cost: that faith-based governance, foreign policy by gut instinct, choosing leaders on the basis of which one we'd most like to watch television with, simply does not work.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Some say this is a conservative revolution, but this is no conservatism Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater would have recognized. At least their ideology adhered to an interior logic. This ideology adheres to a perverse "illogic" that posits that the less you know, the more authentic you are. So what triumphs here is not conservatism, but rather, mediocrity. The Know Nothings and Flat Earthers are ascendant. But intellect matters.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Knowledge is good. And what's it tell you that that point even needs to be made?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">In a recent debate, O'Donnell was asked to name a modern Supreme Court decision to which she objects. "Oh, gosh," she said. "Give me a specific one, I'm sorry. ... Right off the top of my head, I know that there are a lot, but I'll put it up on my website, I promise you."<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Some of us are reminded of how candidate George W. Bush kept calling Greeks "Grecians."<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Some of us remember how the electorate shrugged off that evidence of looming gaps in his basic knowledge because he had a folksy way and twinkling eyes. Some of us remember how that came out.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Others apparently don't.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Others are ready to travel that road again. It brings to mind an old saying: we get the leaders we deserve.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">You and I better hope that's not true.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Leonard Pitts Jr. is a columnist for the Miami Herald.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">=======================================================<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">List services made available by First Step Internet, <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://www.fsr.net"><a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></a> <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">=======================================================<br></blockquote><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net"><a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></a> <br> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></a><br>=======================================================<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></body></html>