<div>The following paragraph is exactly what I wrote (including the error of hyphenating "socio-path") regarding empathy, sociopathic tendencies and mental illness, two days ago in an "Off List" discussion prompted by the post "[Vision2020] MIT Neuroscientists: Moral judgments can be altered ... by magnets" I was surprised to read a somewhat similar analysis expressed on Vision2020 in this thread:</div>
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<div>On the issue or "normal" versus "mentally ill" regarding free will and moral responsibility, assuming rigid determinism and no free will, defining mentally normal and ill might just be a matter of evaluating rational decision making capabilities linked to properly functioning behavioral and emotional make-up, which could all be deterministic in how they operate. It is well known that some socio-paths are highly rational and intelligent, and can manage complex behaviors to achieve given ends; but they have what most consider an emotional defect, that they have no empathy for others. They can hurt other human beings terribly and feel detached, or feel pleasure, not unpleasantness as emotionally healthy people would. Research has shown that some of these socio-paths were severely neglected and/or abused as infants and children, thus they did not form the human emotional connections that are the foundations of empathy. There may also be genetic influences in these cases. What I find untenable is that sometimes socio-paths are not defined as being mentally ill, in our justice system, or in psychiatry. I rather think they are profoundly mentally ill, even if they appear rational, aware of what they are doing, and in "control" of their behavior. "Control" of behavior, knowledge of the law and/or behavioral codes and rational thinking capabilities are only part of the issue. If someones emotional functioning is severely damaged (no capacity for empathy, for example), this is clearly mental illness, to my mind.</div>
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<div>Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 7:10 PM, deb <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:debismith@moscow.com">debismith@moscow.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Having worked as a counselor with just such youth, I also think this consequence is very light.</font></div>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial"> In my experience, development of a conscience and the ability to feel for others must happen before age 10. If it doesn't (and in this case appears to not have happened) the person in question is unlikely to ever have empathy, not to mention impulse control, social skills beyond predatory machinations, and a sense of right vs wrong. Long term therapy can help them with enlightened self interest, but they still will have those sociopathic tendencies.</font></div>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial"> It doesn't help that Idaho has closed or downsized so many Health and Welfare offices, which means these boys are unlikely to get the continued counseling and monitoring they will need. And where the heck were their parents? They get to go back to the very people who left them unsupervised (with guns) for an extended period of time....</font></div>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Sadly, our system is not set up to prevent further difficulties with and for these boys....it is set up to create more of them, given our lack of funding for public school programs that actually assist kids through developmental stages which encompass empathy, consideration, and critical thinking skills...We seem to be raising a generation of kids who think life is a video game, people are only images, and consequences end when you turn off the game. You can always start again, good as new, in a differnt persona...</font></div>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Debi R-S</font></div>
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<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title="donaldrose@cpcinternet.com" href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com" target="_blank">Rosemary</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">'Vision 2020'</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 26, 2010 1:00 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> [Vision2020] More than rascals</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am by nature and family livelihood sympathetic to the defense side in most legal battles. However, 14 year old kids who spend an afternoon shooting at passing motorists for the pure hell of it aren’t just rascals they are, at the very least, moronic little thugs. The notion that 30 days detention and three years of probation is an adequate sentence for their crimes is ludicrous. How long do you think it will be before these punks graduate to bigger and nastier offenses – although shooting at people is not exactly bush league, is it?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rose Huskey</p></div></div></div>
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