<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<STYLE>.hmmessage P {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
BODY.hmmessage {
FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt
}
</STYLE>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.18904"></HEAD>
<BODY class=hmmessage bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV>Maybe this might help:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>w.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=lfalen@turbonet.com
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</A> ; <A
title=v2020@ssl.fastmail.fm
href="mailto:v2020@ssl.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl.fastmail.fm</A> ; <A
title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A> ; <A
title=garrettmc@verizon.net
href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net">garrettmc@verizon.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2010 2:49
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Say What?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Roger, I wonder if you would make your "Nazis were leftists"
argument to the scholars Saundra referenced, as well as to the historians and
political scientists who are in near-unanimous consensus that this is not the
case. You are simply wrong on this point. Stalin may have said
that a lie becomes true if you repeat it enough times, but I wonder if you're
under the impression that an error of fact becomes less so the more you dig
your heels in to defend it.<BR><BR>Because that would also be wrong, albeit
almost as embarrassing as the initial point you made. <BR><BR><FONT
color=#8064a2><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" size=3><FONT
face=Verdana>Keely<BR><A
href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com">www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</A><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT><BR><BR><BR><BR>>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 12:00:05 -0700<BR>> From: lfalen@turbonet.com<BR>>
To: v2020@ssl.fastmail.fm; thansen@moscow.com; garrettmc@verizon.net<BR>>
CC: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<BR>>
<BR>> Saundra<BR>> I do not know how you can continue to insist that the
Nazis were on the right, when the basic difference between left and right is
that the left believes in varying degrees of government control and the right
believes in free markets and individual freedom to varying degrees.There are
of course some exceptions to this as some but not all of those on the left
believe in freedom in thing regarding sex and some but not all of those on the
right would like to regulate it. It gets confusing as some on the lett want to
prohibit any expression of religion in the schools, while some on the right
would like to prohibit the teaching of evolution or demand that Intelligent
Design be taught in science classes. The basics though is a matter of
economics. You might have some grounds for your position based on the fact
that some dictators allow for the free market to operate. They are not on the
right as far as individual freedom is concerned. When I took political science
from Robert Hos!<BR>> ack, he<BR>> described the various ideologies as a
circle rather than a straight line. In this view the extreme right and extreme
left would meet. If you except that view. you would again have a
point.<BR>> The left is very good at taking things that are perceived as
bad and hanging it on those that the disagree with(Nazi, racist, etc). and
taking those things that have a favorable connotation( liberal and
progressive) and adopting it for themselves. This was born out very well in
the last election. When anyone who disagreed with Obama was labeled a racist.
This had the desired effect of making some people reluctant to comment. Stalin
said "If you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth" At least the
perceivrd truth. This is what is taking place here. The left is hypocritical
when they said "We won, shut up and except it" They did not have this position
when Bush won as they should not have.<BR>> Roger<BR>> <BR>>
-----Original message-----<BR>> From: "Saundra Lund"
v2020@ssl.fastmail.fm<BR>> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:21:44 -0700<BR>>
To: "'lfalen'" lfalen@turbonet.com, "'Tom Hansen'" thansen@moscow.com,
"'Garrett Clevenger'" garrettmc@verizon.net<BR>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020]
Say What?<BR>> <BR>> > Roger,<BR>> > <BR>> > As I said,
***read the primary source material*** referenced in the bibliography -- I
have. I'm not asking you to accept Wikipedia's word for it but rather the
expert words of the experts cited.<BR>> > <BR>> > Again, the
definitions you keep repeating ABSOLUTELY DO NOT support your assertion that
Nazism is on the left. The reality is that it is generally accepted by expert
scholars that Nazism is on the ***far*** right. If you want to argue that,
have at it, but you're going to have to have an approach other than sticking
your fingers in your ears and repeatedly announcing, "BECAUSE I SAID
SO!!!"<BR>> > <BR>> > My political science husband has suggested
trying this un-academic approach with you since reason is failing to make it
through your misunderstanding. Question: why, Roger, do you suppose around the
world it's FAR RIGHT POLITICIANS -- and not leftist ones -- who have to
denounce Nazism and any connection to Nazism???<BR>> > <BR>> >
Answer: IT'S BECAUES NAZISM IS ON THE FAR RIGHT!!!!<BR>> > <BR>> >
Sheesh!<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Saundra
Lund<BR>> > Moscow, ID<BR>> > <BR>> > The only thing
necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.<BR>>
> ~ Edmund Burke<BR>> > <BR>> > ***** Original material
contained herein is Copyright 2010 through life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund.
Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
without the express written permission of the author.*****<BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
-----Original Message-----<BR>> > From: lfalen
[mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com] <BR>> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010
12:37 PM<BR>> > To: Saundra Lund; 'Tom Hansen'; 'Garrett
Clevenger'<BR>> > Cc: 'Moscow Vision 2020'<BR>> > Subject: RE:
[Vision2020] Say What?<BR>> > <BR>> > Saundra<BR>> >
Wikipedia is notorious for being inaccurate. Anyone can post to it. Try
Merriam-Webster. My source is Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, copyright
1997, page 767. Nazism- The body and economic doctrines held and put into
effect by the National Socialist German Workers Party in the Third Reich
including the totalitarian principle of government, state control of all
industry, predominance of groups assumed to be racially superior, and or the
supremacy of the fuhrer.<BR>> > Roger<BR>> > -----Original
message-----<BR>> > From: "Saundra Lund" v2020@ssl.fastmail.fm<BR>>
> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 11:46:09 -0700<BR>> > To: "'lfalen'"
lfalen@turbonet.com, "'Tom Hansen'" thansen@moscow.com, "'Garrett Clevenger'"
garrettmc@verizon.net<BR>> > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Say What?<BR>>
> <BR>> > > Hi Roger,<BR>> > > <BR>> > > First,
we're enjoying the pheasants, too -- I'm thinking their temporary<BR>> >
> disappearance was the effect of a brutal winter and wet spring with
their<BR>> > > associated high rates of mortality. I'm glad you're
enjoying the pheasants<BR>> > > and quail as much as we are!<BR>>
> > <BR>> > > Second, I give up on you. No one is arguing with
the Merriam-Webster<BR>> > > definitions but rather with your
extrapolations from those definitions --<BR>> > > that's where you
are dead wrong. Period.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > "Nazism
(Nationalsozialismus, National Socialism) was the ideology and<BR>> >
> practice of the Nazi Party and of Nazi Germany.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]
It<BR>> > > was a unique variety of fascism that involved biological
racism and<BR>> > > anti-Semitism.[9] Nazism presented itself as
politically syncretic,<BR>> > > incorporating policies, tactics and
philosophies from right- and left-wing<BR>> > > ideologies; in
practice, Nazism was a far right form of politics.[10]."<BR>> > >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Read
the primary source materials provided in the bibliography, and then
let<BR>> > > us know you Get It. Or at least provide an intelligent
rebuttal of the<BR>> > > position of the credible scholars that
Nazism is ***far*** right rather than<BR>> > > just repeating your
personal and erroneous opinion.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>>
> > <BR>> > > Saundra Lund<BR>> > > Moscow, ID<BR>>
> > <BR>> > > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
is for good people to do<BR>> > > nothing.<BR>> > > ~ Edmund
Burke<BR>> > > <BR>> > > ***** Original material contained
herein is Copyright 2010 through life plus<BR>> > > 70 years, Saundra
Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside<BR>> > >
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the<BR>>
> > author.*****<BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>> > >
<BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>> > > -----Original
Message-----<BR>> > > From: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com]<BR>> > > On Behalf Of
lfalen<BR>> > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:35 AM<BR>> >
> To: Tom Hansen; Garrett Clevenger<BR>> > > Cc: Moscow Vision
2020<BR>> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<BR>> > >
<BR>> > > I give up on you guys. These were not my definitions that I
sent Wayne<BR>> > > Price, they are from Merriam-Webster. If you do
not believe me, check your<BR>> > > dictionary. If you want to
rewrite the dictionary, maybe you should go join<BR>> > > the Flat
Earth Society.<BR>> > > As for being on the left. The left wing in
the 20's embraced both Hitler and<BR>> > > Mussolini up untill the
World War II started. They also originated Eugenics.<BR>> > > Hitler
picked it from them. Both Margaret Sanger and Oliver Wendell Homes<BR>>
> > supported Eugenics. If you want verification Tom, look it up on
Google. It<BR>> > > is easy to find.<BR>> > > Roger<BR>>
> > <BR>> > > Note to Saundra- In a post of yours a couple of
years ago, you asked where<BR>> > > have all the pheasants gone. They
are back in my yard and pasture. I enjoy<BR>> > > watching them and
the quail.<BR>> > > -----Original message-----<BR>> > >
From: "Tom Hansen" thansen@moscow.com<BR>> > > Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010
13:17:46 -0700<BR>> > > To: "Garrett Clevenger"
garrettmc@verizon.net<BR>> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say
What?<BR>> > > <BR>> > > > Exactly.<BR>> > >
> <BR>> > > > What was your first clue, Roger, that the Nazis
were/are far left?<BR>> > > > <BR>> > > > Their
systematic execution of homosexuals?<BR>> > > > <BR>> > >
> The elimination of individual rights?<BR>> > > > <BR>>
> > > Or simply their attempt to destroy democracy?<BR>> > >
> <BR>> > > > Tom Hansen<BR>> > > > Moscow,
Idaho<BR>> > > > <BR>> > > > ><BR>> > >
> > Roger writes:<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > >
> "It is convenient for the left to place them on the right. this makes
it<BR>> > > > > easier for them to demonise the right and
marginalize them by<BR>> > > > > association."<BR>> >
> > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > Er,
isn't this what Roger just did by saying "The Nazis are on the<BR>> >
> left."?<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > I'll
continue his quote to make his nazi one more realisitic.<BR>> > >
> ><BR>> > > > > "They ... may want freedom for
themselves, but not for others. This<BR>> > > does<BR>> > >
> > not place them on the {left}, who wants freedom for everyone.
{nazis}<BR>> > > > > basically are kooks and cannot be
categorized as being left or right."<BR>> > > > ><BR>> >
> > > So Roger is part right, even if he is or isn't "on the
right."<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >
Garrett<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >
=======================================================<BR>> > > >
> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> > >
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > >
> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> > > > >
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > > > >
=======================================================<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > <BR>> > > > <BR>> > > >
"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
change<BR>> > > > and the Realist adjusts his sails."<BR>> >
> > <BR>> > > > - Unknown<BR>> > > > <BR>>
> > > <BR>> > > >
=======================================================<BR>> > > >
List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> > > >
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> > > >
http://www.fsr.net <BR>> > > >
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > > >
=======================================================<BR>> > >
<BR>> > >
=======================================================<BR>> > > List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> > > serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> > > http://www.fsr.net
<BR>> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > >
=======================================================<BR>> > >
<BR>> > > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> <BR>>
=======================================================<BR>> List services
made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the
Palouse since 1994. <BR>> http://www.fsr.net <BR>>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>>
=======================================================<BR><BR>
<HR>
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
Hotmail. <A
href="http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5"
target=_new>Get busy.</A>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>=======================================================<BR> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>
http://www.fsr.net
<BR>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>