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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>I agree with Paul.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Phelps and gang, whose fundamental Calvinistic
theology is not much different from that of the Christ Church Cult, are entitled
to express their opinions. They may do this in ways that meets the
disapprobation of most of the population, but if their mode of
expression is within the limits of constitutional law and laws which are
also constitutional, then they are entirely within their rights, however
repugnant some of us may think of their views and the mental anguish giving
way they choose to express them. The way to oppose these atavistic, hate
driven views is to argue persuasively against them, not prevent their
expression.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Of all the freedoms necessary for a free society
to flourish, in my opinion the right of individual (real) persons to express and
to promulgate their opinions is the most important. Restricting
discussion/expression of any view is apt to prove dangerous and
counterproductive in the long run. Without a lot of people doing things
that many others considered repugnant at the time the progress that has been
made in civil rights, for example, would be very unlikely.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>I would be the last to argue that the way
attorney fees may be assigned needs some work, but this is a very complex
matter. I won attorney fees once in a case on the Private Attorney General
Doctrine, a case which contributed to case law in Idaho. In a way this is
the same as winning attorney fees when prevailing in a case where someone has
trampled upon your constitutional rights. Hence, I agree with the award of
attorney fees. The message is: Don't trample carelessly on
constitutional rights without expecting expensive consequences.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>I also wonder about the objectivity of the
plaintiff's attorneys. I wonder if he was duly advised of his chances of
prevailing. And if so, still felt strongly enough to pursue the
litigation. One of the functions of an ethical counsel is to try to
assess, then to communicate to the client the chances of prevailing in a
case. Too many attorneys at large sometimes means an attorney's survival
means keeping their cash flow positive by suggesting unnecessary procedures and
litigation without adequately determining and communicating the risks to the
client.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO Box
9421<BR>Moscow, ID 83843</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana><A
href="mailto:waf@moscow.com">waf@moscow.com</A><BR>208 882-7975</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=godshatter@yahoo.com href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Moscow Vision 2020</A> ; <A
title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:59
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] A Call for
Justice</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Once again I'm put in a position where I have to side with
people I frankly think are evil and are lacking even a smidgen of tact or good
sense. What it comes down to is this: either freedom of speech means
something or it doesn't. If you start looking at the message and basing
your decisions on that, then it's no longer free speech. You've just
thrown that concept out of the window.<BR><BR>Freedom of speech is a
double-edged sword, there's no doubt about it. If you want the ability
to complain about your taxes or to express your opinion on politics in public,
or to describe an act of police brutality without being beaten yourself, then
you have to allow these twits to call your dead son a fag in public at his
funeral.<BR><BR>I don't blame this guy for doing what he's done. I may
have done the same in his shoes. In the end, though, I'm glad he lost
his case.<BR><BR>Now, forcing him to pay those sons of bitches court costs is
another story altogether.<BR><BR>I'd also like to say that Fred Phelps and his
friends wouldn't have done this if they didn't think God told them to in the
form of a holy book that allegedly claims that homosexuals are an
abomination. If you take the position that what these guys said crosses
some imaginary line, then you have to look at the Bible in the same
light.<BR><BR>It's better by far to be extremely strict in where the lines are
drawn, i.e. yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR><BR>--- On
Tue, 3/30/10, Tom Hansen <<A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR>>
From: Tom Hansen <<A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>><BR>> Subject:
[Vision2020] A Call for Justice<BR>> To: "Moscow Vision 2020" <<A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>><BR>>
Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 7:07 AM<BR>> Courtesy of the Army Times
at:<BR>> <BR>> <A
href="http://www.ArmyTimes.com">http://www.ArmyTimes.com</A><BR>> <BR>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
<BR>> Fallen Marine’s dad takes case against funeral protesters<BR>> to
Supreme Court<BR>> <BR>> By Dan Lamothe<BR>> <BR>> YORK, Pa. —
Albert Snyder’s eyes well up with tears<BR>> when he recalls his<BR>>
son’s funeral. More than 1,200 people packed St. John<BR>> Catholic Church
in<BR>> Westminster, Md., on March 10, 2006, to pay their respects<BR>>
to 20-year-old<BR>> Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who died when his Humvee
rolled<BR>> over in Iraq’s<BR>> Anbar province while he manned the
vehicle’s gun turret.<BR>> <BR>> On their trip from the church to a
nearby veterans<BR>> cemetery, small-town<BR>> patriotism was on full
display. Cars pulled over and<BR>> allowed the funeral<BR>> procession
to pass. Strangers on the street saluted.<BR>> <BR>> “I’ve never seen a
funeral like this in my life,” the<BR>> father said, his<BR>> voice
wavering. “It was just amaz­ing to see.” But the<BR>> funeral was
marred<BR>> by seven uninvited guests — members of the Westboro<BR>>
Baptist Church who<BR>> flew in from their headquar­ters in Topeka,
Kan., to<BR>> picket the outside<BR>> the church service.<BR>>
<BR>> Carrying signs reading “Semper Fi Fags ,” “Thank God<BR>> for Dead
Sol­diers”<BR>> and “Thank God for IEDs,” the group infuriated<BR>>
passersby and mourners —<BR>> just as its mem­bers have at hundreds of
military funerals<BR>> across the<BR>> country before and since.<BR>>
<BR>> Led by founder Fred Phelps, the group maintains that God<BR>>
kills U.S. troops<BR>> as punishment for the country’s tolerance of<BR>>
homosexual­ity, greed and<BR>> abortion.<BR>> <BR>> Snyder wasn’t
going to take that lying down.<BR>> <BR>> Four years after his son’s
death, this modest automation<BR>> equip­ment<BR>> salesman and a
small team of lawyers are taking their case<BR>> all the way to<BR>> the
Supreme Court, where they will argue that Phelps’<BR>> right to free
speech<BR>> does not super­sede mourners’ rights to lay their
family<BR>> members to rest<BR>> without facing an insulting public
protest.<BR>> <BR>> Snyder is seeking $5 million in emotional and
punitive<BR>> damages from<BR>> Westboro Baptist and mem­bers of the
Phelps family. He<BR>> hopes that a legal<BR>> victory will spare others
the torment he and hundreds of<BR>> other military<BR>> fami­lies
have been forced to endure.<BR>> <BR>> The court, which takes only one
in a hundred cases it’s<BR>> asked to consider,<BR>> agreed in March to
hear the case. Arguments are scheduled<BR>> for the fall<BR>> court
term, which begins in October.<BR>> <BR>> “I knew these people were
going to be at Matt’s<BR>> funeral, but in my mind,<BR>> this day was
about Matt, and that’s strictly what it was<BR>> about,” Snyder<BR>>
said. “People think that these were seven people who<BR>> showed up with
little<BR>> signs. There were people flipping them the fin­ger,<BR>>
yelling at them from<BR>> cars. And this is the way you’re going to bury
someone<BR>> who died for their<BR>> country?”<BR>> <BR>> Fighting
back<BR>> <BR>> Snyder’s fight started almost immediately. He sued
the<BR>> West­boro church<BR>> for defamation, inva­sion of
privacy and intentional<BR>> infliction of<BR>> emotional
distress.<BR>> <BR>> His suit charged that a screed against the Snyders
posted<BR>> on one of the<BR>> church’s Web sites was defamatory. Titled
“The Burden<BR>> of Marine Lance Cpl.<BR>> Matthew A. Snyder,” the rant
accused his parents of<BR>> raising their son “for<BR>> the devil.” It
also accused them of teaching him to<BR>> commit adultery and<BR>>
divorce and to “support the largest pedophile machine in<BR>> the history
of<BR>> the entire world, the Roman Catholic monstrosity.”<BR>> Finally,
the suit<BR>> argued that the church meant to harm Snyder’s family<BR>>
emotionally.<BR>> <BR>> The suit did not ask for a specif­ic amount
of money, but<BR>> said the<BR>> Westboro group should have to pay
emotional damages,<BR>> Snyder’s court costs<BR>> and punitive damages
for their “reprehensible actions.”<BR>> “I thought about<BR>> it and
about what they did to me, and how Matt would have<BR>> felt if
somebody<BR>> had done this to one of his brothers from Iraq,” he
said.<BR>> “And I decided,<BR>> ‘I’m going to go through with this.’ ”
The church<BR>> sought to quash the<BR>> lawsuit, arguing during a trial
in Baltimore in October<BR>> 2007 that its<BR>> members did not intend
to cause emotional distress. Their<BR>> protest was kept<BR>> 1,000 feet
from the church’s doors, they pointed out.<BR>> They needed to<BR>>
preach to “doomed America” in public places to let it<BR>> be known
the<BR>> acceptance of homo­sexuality is wrong, they said.<BR>>
<BR>> The jury didn’t buy their argu­ment. On Oct. 31, 2007,<BR>> it
found in<BR>> Snyder’s favor, awarding him $10.9 million in damages
—<BR>> enough to<BR>> effectively bankrupt the 70-member church.<BR>>
<BR>> ‘An insult’<BR>> <BR>> The Westboro group immediate­ly
appealed the decision.<BR>> <BR>> In February 2008, a federal judge in
Baltimore decided to<BR>> reduce the<BR>> damages to $5 million. The
church’s next appeal went to<BR>> the 4th U.S.<BR>> Circuit Court of
Appeals in Richmond, Va.<BR>> <BR>> That court overturned the
origi­nal decision, with a<BR>> three-judge panel<BR>> ruling the
Phelps family’s signs and internet criticism<BR>> of the Snyders
was<BR>> protected as free speech under the First Amend­ment,
even<BR>> if the discourse<BR>> was “repugnant,” Judge Robert King wrote
in the<BR>> court’s opinion.<BR>> <BR>> Snyder struggled with his
next step, too.<BR>> <BR>> In an interview, Snyder said bal­ancing
the legal battle,<BR>> interview<BR>> requests and day-to-day life has
been overwhelming at<BR>> times. He has<BR>> accrued about $50,000 in
legal bills, even though his<BR>> attorneys do not<BR>> charge him for
their time. He launched a Web site at<BR>> <BR>> <A
href="http://www.matthewsnyder.org">http://www.matthewsnyder.org</A><BR>>
<BR>> to help collect money for the fight, but is “still a long<BR>> way
off” from<BR>> paying for everything.<BR>> <BR>> “I don’t want to
take anyone’s free speech away,”<BR>> Snyder said. “But I<BR>> don’t
want anybody to do anything to the people who gave<BR>> us that
free<BR>> speech. Too many peo­ple have died to protect it, and
for<BR>> someone to hide<BR>> behind it and abuse it is an insult.”
Legal experts are<BR>> uncertain how the<BR>> case will play out. They
ques­tion whether the court will<BR>> rule in favor of<BR>> Snyder
if it means the right to free speech will be limited<BR>> in any
way.<BR>> <BR>> -----------------<BR>> <BR>> Lance Cpl. Matthew
Snyder and his father, Albert.<BR>> <BR>> <A
href="http://tinyurl.com/Matthew-Snyder">http://tinyurl.com/Matthew-Snyder</A><BR>>
<BR>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
<BR>> Pro patria.<BR>> <BR>> Seeya round town, Moscow.<BR>>
<BR>> Tom Hansen<BR>> Moscow, Idaho<BR>> <BR>> "Patriotism is not
a short and frenzied outburst of emotion<BR>> but the<BR>> tranquil and
steady dedication of a lifetime."<BR>> <BR>> -- Adlai E. Stevenson,
Jr.<BR>> <BR>>
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