<div>Keely wrote:</div>
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<div>"So I understand the "they shoulda known" element of the "conspiracy," I suppose, but can someone explain what it is that makes some believe there were specific acts committed in service of deliberate scenarios that left more than 3,000 people dead in PA, NYC, and DC -- and that these acts were committed by our government against its own people?"<br>
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<div>Some people believe alternative theories about the World Trade Center collapse, and the other 9/11 attacks, because, amazingly, there are seemingly credible sources of evidence and analysis to support these theories, as you can read at the papers referenced here, which are sourced from what appear to be peer reviewed professional journals. </div>
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<div>I directly reference papers suggesting thermite involved in the WTC collapse, and that question the claim that the total collapse could happen solely from the aircraft strike and fire on the upper floors <strong><em>(I am not endorsing these alternative theories).</em></strong> But others believe in seemingly incredible theories about 9/11 because they have an emotional bias, for whatever reason(s), to accept these theories; so any evidence, however questionable, that suggests the official explanation for the 9/11 attacks is doubtful, is seized as proof of a conspiracy.</div>
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<div>I think a comparison can be made between some of those who believe that the scientific consensus on anthropogenic climate warming (Examining the Scientific Consensus on Climate Change, Journal "EOS" <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf" target="_blank">http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf</a> ) is a deliberate hoax or conspiracy among climate scientists, and those who accept incredible conspiracy theories about the 9/11 attacks. All that some people who claim global warming is a hoax need to justify their belief is a list of "experts" (MIT's Richard Lindzen, for example) who raise questions about the science involved, to prove that the thousands of scientists around the planet, who after exhaustive peer review argue that human activity is profoundly altering climate, are engaged in a conspiracy to deceive the world. Similarly, all that some who think the 9/11 attacks involved more than the actions of the 9/11 terrorists require, to justify their belief, is a few "experts" who raise questions, regardless if it can be shown via peer review that these questions have plausible explanations that do not involve an alternative conspiracy interpretation.</div>
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<div>One of the main alternative theories is that thermite was planted in the World Trade Center towers to ensure a more total collapse, that would not have happened from the aircraft strike alone. I have read here (Journal of Engineering Mechanics: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://heiwaco.tripod.com/blgb.pdf" target="_blank">http://heiwaco.tripod.com/blgb.pdf</a> ) that evidence for thermite in the WTC debris is due to chemical reactions in material contained in the building, not because thermite was deliberately planted in the building by conspirators; and that the total collapse can be explained by the aircraft strike alone and resulting fire. However, this source raises serious questions that the total collapse can be explained only by the aircraft strike and fire:</div>
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<div><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCIEJ/2008/00000002/00000001/35TOCIEJ.SGM" target="_blank">http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCIEJ/2008/00000002/00000001/35TOCIEJ.SGM</a></div>
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<div>The Open Civil Engineering Journal
<p><font size="+0">Volume 2 </font><font size="+0"></font><br><font size="+0">ISSN:</font> <font size="+0">1874-1495 </font><br><br>Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the World Trade Center Destruction </p>
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<div>And this paper might be sourced by those who think thermite was planted in the WTC:</div>
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<div><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM" target="_blank">http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM</a></div>
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<div>The Open Chemical Physics Journal
<p><font size="+0">Volume 2 </font><font size="+0"></font><br><font size="+0">ISSN:</font> <font size="+0">1874-4125 </font><br>Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe<br>
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<p>Of course the thermite conspiracy theory implies some rather connected and powerful people had inside knowledge that aircraft would be hijacked to strike the towers, who had access to the WTC, and wanted to exploit maximum damage for whatever agenda they were pursuing (perhaps the "new Pearl Harbor" from page 51 of the "Project for the New American Century" document "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century" September 2000:<br>
<a href="http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf">http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf</a></p>
<p>David Ray Griffin, a process theologian from the Claremont School of Theology, presents evidence that 9/11 was anticipated. A review of his book, "<em>The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions about the Bush Administration and 9/11"</em>, by Dr. Rosemary Radford Ruether, a pioneer Christian feminist theologian, is at this website:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ratical.com/ratville/CAH/nPearlHarbor.html">http://www.ratical.com/ratville/CAH/nPearlHarbor.html</a></p>
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<p>The "thermite" claim is a rather incredible conspiracy theory. The conspiracy theory that those in the intelligence business who were "in the know" about the 9/11 plot simply took no action to stop it, to exploit the attacks for a certain agenda, is much more believable. Think of Oliver North and his illegal actions regarding Iran-Contra.</p>
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<div>But if any of the 9/11 conspiracy plots were true, to say those involved represented "our government," requires qualification. There are "black-op" activities that our kept "off the books": members of the US Congress, even the president and his cabinet, may not be aware of these activities, by design. Was it "our government" who engaged in the "Iran-Contra" affair?</div>
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<div>The following website lists numerous sources suggesting "alternative" theories regarding 9/11, some, not all, from professional science journals. It appears the claim that some of these papers are "peer reviewed" means those who sponsor the website are the "peers" who review, which is not how the peer review process works in professional science publishing. This approach is sometimes how junk science on anthropogenic climate warming is presented as "peer reviewed," when the process is not independent of bias, nor open to random selection of professional reviewers. A couple of scientists start a journal and accept papers that fit their bias, to create the impression they are publishing credible independently peer reviewed science:</div>
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<div><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.journalof911studies.com/" target="_blank">http://www.journalof911studies.com/</a></div>
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<div>Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett<br><br> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Garrett Clevenger <span dir="ltr"><<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net" target="_blank">garrettmc@verizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial">Keely asks:</p>
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<p style="MIN-HEIGHT: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial"><br></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial">"can someone explain what it is that makes some believe there were specific acts committed in service of deliberate scenarios that left more than 3,000 people dead in PA, NYC, and DC -- and that these acts were committed by our government against its own people?"</p>
<p style="MIN-HEIGHT: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial"><br></p>
<p style="MIN-HEIGHT: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial"><br></p></div>
<p style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial">Governments have done way worse. </p>
<p style="MIN-HEIGHT: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial"><br></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial">History shows there are despicable people who use their power in such a way. </p>
<p style="MIN-HEIGHT: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial"><br></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial">Whether it was this government or a Saudi fanatic, some person chose to do such a thing, which shows that people can be very, very bad.</p>
<p style="MIN-HEIGHT: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial"><br></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial">Also, people are gullible and will believe anything. I'm sure some think it was aliens who controlled the minds of some poor earthling who was the real terrorist.</p>
<p style="MIN-HEIGHT: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial"><br></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial">There's probably even someone out there who thinks it was me!</p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Arial"><br></p><br>Garrett Clevenger<br><br>--- On <b>Wed, 3/24/10, keely emerinemix <i><<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com" target="_blank">kjajmix1@msn.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><br>From: keely emerinemix <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com" target="_blank">kjajmix1@msn.com</a>><br>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Former US Senator & 9/11 Commissoner Max Cleland<br>To: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:moscowrecycling@turbonet.com" target="_blank">moscowrecycling@turbonet.com</a>, <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" target="_blank">lfalen@turbonet.com</a>, <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net" target="_blank">garrettmc@verizon.net</a><br>
Cc: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 12:41 PM
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<div>Excellent point, but I think it's also important to realize that it was the Bush administration, pre-9/11, which was laying the groundwork for war in Iraq -- facts be damned -- and led a devil's rush in precisely, exactly, the direction from which the attacks didn't come. The Clinton presidency was highly imperfect, but it wasn't his administration that desperately sought reason to invade Iraq under the flimsiest of pretenses. <br>
<br>I've looked over some 9/11 conspiracy sites and find them interesting but not terribly convincing. I'm wondering how those who believe there was a conspiracy -- not of individual acts of omission, but of specific acts of comission -- explain jetliners full of victims vaporized on contact. If I read correctly, some even think the planes were empty, or largely so, and the examination of passenger manifests surely would rule that out. (Manifests, and common sense).<br>
<br>So I understand the "they shoulda known" element of the "conspiracy," I suppose, but can someone explain what it is that makes some believe there were specific acts committed in service of deliberate scenarios that left more than 3,000 people dead in PA, NYC, and DC -- and that these acts were committed by our government against its own people?<br>
<br><font color="#8064a2"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" size="3"><font face="Verdana">Keely<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com/" target="_blank">www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</a><br>
</font></font></font><br><br><br><br>> From: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:moscowrecycling@turbonet.com" target="_blank">moscowrecycling@turbonet.com</a><br>> To: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" target="_blank">lfalen@turbonet.com</a>; <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net" target="_blank">garrettmc@verizon.net</a><br>
> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 11:24:11 -0700<br>> CC: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Former US Senator & 9/11 Commissoner Max Cleland<br>
> <br>> I'll put blame on the economy as far back as Reagan for deregulating wall <br>> street.<br>> Andy Boyd<br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>> From: "lfalen" <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" target="_blank">lfalen@turbonet.com</a>><br>
> To: "Garrett Clevenger" <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net" target="_blank">garrettmc@verizon.net</a>><br>> Cc: <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:59 AM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Former US Senator & 9/11 Commissoner Max Cleland<br>> <br>> <br>> >I do not wish to exonerate Bush in this. I think that his people should <br>
> >have been more on top of it. It does seem funny to me though that Obama <br>> >still blaming every thing wrong with the economy on Bush. You should <br>> >remember that 9/11 occurred shortly after Bush took office. Why not put <br>
> >some of the blame on Clinton?<br>> > Roger<br>> > -----Original message-----<br>> > From: Garrett Clevenger <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net" target="_blank">garrettmc@verizon.net</a><br>
> > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:42:23 -0700<br>> > To: lfalen <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" target="_blank">lfalen@turbonet.com</a><br>> > Subject: Re: Former US Senator & 9/11 Commissoner Max Cleland<br>
> ><br>> >> Roger writes:<br>> >> "There has many books written,lawsuits and movies about the Warren <br>> >> Commission also. Anybody can write a book speculating on conspiracies. <br>
> >> This is not proof of anything."<br>> >><br>> >> True, anybody could write a book about anything, including a particular <br>> >> religion, but that is not proof of anything.<br>
> >> The ironic thing is that 911 was supposedly islamic terrorist based which <br>> >> was leapt upon by christians, including WBush, both with religions based <br>> >> upon mostly the same book speculating what God wants. But it doesn't make <br>
> >> it true.<br>> >> A lot of damage is caused by people who believe what a certain book says, <br>> >> so believe me, I'm skeptical about pretty much everything.<br>> >> But, common sense dictates that if powerful people espoused a certain <br>
> >> belief as pointed out by Ted <br>> >> (<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf</a>) and <br>
> >> then that unfolds while they are in power, then I have to question that <br>> >> coincidence.<br>> >> I have no idea what the truth is around 911, but I do see that the <br>> >> consequences were way worse than they needed to be, and I blame that on <br>
> >> those who were in power at the time.<br>> >> Since there is a lot of evidence to suggest either incompetence or <br>> >> purposeful malfeasance, as a conscious human I can't help but be <br>
> >> irritated by that, and at least have an open mind about possible <br>> >> scenarios.<br>> >> After all, truth is often more unbelievable than fiction...<br>> >><br>> >> Garrett Clevenger<br>
> >><br>> ><br>> > =======================================================</div></div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote>
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