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<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>I didn't avoid the question, and
certainly not the issue. Maybe you should re-read my post.
It's pretty straightforward. Anyway, I'm done with it. I have work
to do. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>Sue </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:28 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Moscow Vision 2020</A> ; <A
title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A> ; <A
title=suehovey@moscow.com href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue Hovey</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=gschroed@senate.state.id.us
href="mailto:gschroed@senate.state.id.us">gschroed@senate.state.id.us</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Senate Bill 1353 - Freedom of
Conscience</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>
<DIV>Sue,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You avoided my question and the issue. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We both seem to agree that if the life or possibility
of quality of care of a patient is in question the patient care
comes before the beliefs of the individual provider of that care.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Where we seem to disagree, is that you even if it isn't an emergency,
and accommodation can easily and readily be made for the provider of the
care, you still object to making that accommodation. Why?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Further, don't you think less people would be willing to provide care
if they are forced to do something they want to do and they believe is a
grave sin? Won't this overall decrease the level of needed care providers
and raise the costs of medical care? Why would you want to unnecessarily
inflict this kind of harm on an already understaffed and needed
profession? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It seems to me, if an employer can reasonably meet the needs of
nurses and other care providers without sacrificing the type
or quality of care for a patient, they should do so. If they
don't, care providers and nurses, and people in the patient care business
will leave of choose other professions, and that will for surely reduce
the quality of care while increasing the costs of medical care.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Please stay safe out there on the Big Island.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Your Friend,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan Arnold<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 2/28/10, Sue Hovey
<I><suehovey@moscow.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
Sue <SPAN>Hovey</SPAN> <suehovey@moscow.com><BR>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Senate Bill 1353 - Freedom of Conscience<BR>To: "Donovan
Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com>, "Moscow Vision 2020"
<vision2020@moscow.com>, "Tom Hansen"
<thansen@moscow.com><BR>Cc: gschroed@senate.state.id.us<BR>Date:
Sunday, February 28, 2010, 10:41 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv581923725>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT color=#150e00 size=4>That's a fair
question. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT color=#150e00
size=4></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT color=#150e00 size=4> If my religious
beliefs harm someone else, in this case the person needing the care, and
possibly the employer; then the overriding issue is the potential
harm. I agree this can get sticky. Remember the school case
in which young jr. high boys were wearing ceremonial knives as a part of
their religious garb and the school district policy prohibited carrying
knives or other weapons into the school? The knives had the
potential to harm, the courts said the school district had not erred in
prohibiting them. I agree. Same point, I
think.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>Sue </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:21 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Moscow
Vision 2020</A> ; <A
title="mailto:thansen@moscow.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom
Hansen</A> ; <A
title="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=suehovey@moscow.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue
<SPAN>Hovey</SPAN></A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A
title="mailto:gschroed@senate.state.id.us CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gschroed@senate.state.id.us"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:gschroed@senate.state.id.us">gschroed@senate.state.id.us</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Senate Bill 1353 - Freedom of
Conscience</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<DIV>Sue,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 face=Calibri>You wrote,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 face=Calibri>"I would require the signing
of a statement in which an employee agreed to provide all services
that would ordinarily be offered by an employee working in that
capacity. So if you told the truth, I wouldn't hire you,
Donovan. The bill states you have to give me notification in
advance of the need, so I think I would have reason to fire you if
you lied, then later you refused and claimed protection under the
provisions of Idaho Code 18-611."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sue, are you for discrimination on the basis of
religious or spiritual beliefs? I cannot see your statement as
being anything else but. The law states so as well. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Your Friend,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan Arnold <BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 2/27/10, Sue Hovey
<I><suehovey@moscow.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
Sue Hovey <suehovey@moscow.com><BR>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Senate Bill 1353 - Freedom of Conscience<BR>To:
"Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com>, "Moscow
Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>, "Tom Hansen"
<thansen@moscow.com><BR>Cc:
gschroed@senate.state.id.us<BR>Date: Saturday, February 27,
2010, 10:59 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv625977859>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>Donovan,
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>Such a flip
response.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>It seems to me this
bill has some serious flaws. Those who claim
<SPAN>personhood</SPAN> begins with fertilization will certainly
see it from a different perspective than those who do not.
Regardless, it seems to me its flaws are more serious than its
intentions are benign. I have some observations
for its sponsor, but it will probably pass before I get the
answers to any of my questions. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>1. If one is
providing a prescription s/he is killing nothing.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>2. I
don't see anything in the bill that speaks to having
someone else there, "willing and able to do it," as you say,
so I believe your premise is somewhat flawed.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>3. A great
many drugs, which are taken for other purposes, can
sometimes cause spontaneous abortions. Should a
pharmacist be allowed to refuse to fill those because s/he
has reason to think a woman might be pregnant and might be
planning to use them as an abortifacient? The law
certainly appears to allow that in Section (2)
which is crystal clear: "No health care professional
shall be required to provide any health care service that
violates his or her conscience." </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>4. Regarding
subsection six: If, in an emergency, might a health care
professional kill a mother in order to save a newborn? It
reads: "Shall provide treatment and care," but it doesn't
specify to whom, or whether that care would have to be
the kind the patient's doctor ordered. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>5. Should
this bill pass, If I were an employer, on the application for
employment, I would require the signing of a statement in which
an employee agreed to provide all services that would ordinarily
be offered by an employee working in that capacity. So if
you told the truth, I wouldn't hire you, Donovan. The bill
states you have to give me notification in advance of the need,
so I think I would have reason to fire you if you lied, then
later you refused and claimed protection under the provisions of
Idaho Code 18-611.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>6.
Interestingly, Idaho Code 18-604 doesn't identify abortifacients
so much as it defines items which are not. So it
certainly doesn't serve as much of a
delimiter.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>7. Two other
issues deal with treatment using embryonic stem
cells and end of life care. That one puzzles me the
most--are they just gearing up in case the people of the
State of Idaho pass a vote to allow assisted suicide? Like
that is going to happen here!! What legal
end of life measures could a person ethically refuse
to do now? Seems as though that's overkill....an
appropriate word, I think, for SB
1353. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>And thanks to
Senator Schroeder for the critical issues you raised in your
debate. I appreciated what you had to say.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri>Sue
Hovey</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#150e00 size=4 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank>Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 26, 2010 10:28 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank>Moscow Vision 2020</A> ; <A
title="mailto:thansen@moscow.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank>Tom Hansen</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Senate Bill 1353 - Freedom
of Conscience</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
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<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<DIV>I think it is a good idea to give health care
provides the option of declining to kill a baby, etus,
embryo, zygote, or fertilized egg if someone else is
there willing and able to do it. Why not?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Your Friend,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan Arnold</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 2/26/10, Tom Hansen <I><<A
href="http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>thansen@moscow.com</A>></I></B>
wrote:.<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
Tom Hansen <<A
title="mailto:thansen@moscow.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>thansen@moscow.com</A>><BR>Subject:
[Vision2020] Senate Bill 1353 - Freedom of
Conscience<BR>To: "Moscow Vision 2020" <<A
title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>vision2020@moscow.com</A>><BR>Date:
Friday, February 26, 2010, 7:50 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>Greetings <SPAN>Visionaires</SPAN>
-<BR><BR>Today in the Idaho Senate, Senate Bill 1353
passed by a vote of 21 to
13.<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Senate
Bill 1353<BR>(by STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE)<BR><BR>FREEDOM
OF CONSCIENCE - HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS - Adds to
existing law<BR>relating to abortion and end of life
care to provide freedom of conscience<BR>for health care
professionals.<BR><BR>Senate Bill 1353<BR><A
title="http://www.tomandrodna.com/Idaho/S_1353_Abortion_FreedomOfConscience.pdf CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/Idaho/S_1353_Abortion_FreedomOfConscience.pdf"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.tomandrodna.com/Idaho/S_1353_Abortion_FreedomOfConscience.pdf</A><BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>District
6's own Senator Schroeder commented prior to submitting
his vote.<BR><BR><A
title="http://www.tomandrodna.com/Idaho/S_1353_Schroeder_022610.mp3 CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/Idaho/S_1353_Schroeder_022610.mp3"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.tomandrodna.com/Idaho/S_1353_Schroeder_022610.mp3</A><BR><BR>Thoughts?<BR><BR>The
Idaho Senate debate, concerning S1353, has been recorded
i its<BR>entirety and will be posted <SPAN>online</SPAN>
under the "Moscow Cares" banner after I<BR>complete
converting and posting a rather interesting 1932
Oldsmobile<BR>commercial that I am certain most of you
will find entertaining.<BR><BR>Seeya round town,
Moscow,<BR><BR>Tom Hansen<BR>Moscow, Idaho<BR><BR>"The
Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects
it to change<BR>and the Realist adjusts his
sails."<BR><BR>-
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