<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family:Verdana
}
--></style>
</head>
<body class='hmmessage'>
Paul, you make some really good points, and I appreciate the reasonableness of your comments on this. Please know that Christians (like me) care very much for the immortal souls of those around us -- enough to pray, serve, evangelize, and speak out. But we are prohibited by our Scriptures from harassing you, demeaning you, harming you, or destroying your property, and the "Christians" who do so very clearly don't trust a whole lot the God they're so eager to introduce you to.<br><br>As I've said before, if the most profound and courageous stand you can take for your faith is to spray paint a billboard, vandalism is the least of your problems.<br><br><font style="" color="#8064a2"><font style="font-size: 12pt;" size="3"><font style="" face="Verdana">Keely<br>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com<br></font></font></font><br><br><br><br>> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 08:30:49 -0800<br>> From: godshatter@yahoo.com<br>> To: starbliss@gmail.com<br>> CC: vision2020@moscow.com; donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And Yet, The Saga Continues . . .<br>> <br>> I still don't completely understand it. What business is it of the <br>> person who defaced the billboard whether or not my immortal soul goes to <br>> Heaven or Hell? That's the part I can't get my head around. Were they <br>> really trying to help the undecided out by risking a criminal record in <br>> an effort to afford them the best long-term after-death care? Or were <br>> they so threatened by the loss of power that could entail for their <br>> religion if more of their fellow Christians became aware that there were <br>> other choices that they had to do something? Since we don't know who <br>> did it, we'll probably never know what motivated them.<br>> <br>> I do agree that the "elephant in the room" that people are reluctant to <br>> talk about is the fact that a philosophical outlook like this could <br>> inspire people to break the law and that lots of others appear to accept <br>> this as being OK. <br>> <br>> Paul<br>> <br>> Ted Moffett wrote:<br>> > I should clarify that I am not offended by the "Millions are Good <br>> > without God" billboard, now replaced. I think that what it states is <br>> > true. Millions who do not believe in "God," are kind, honest people, <br>> > who treat their fellow human beings and other lifeforms well. But I <br>> > can understand why someone would strongly feel this message to be <br>> > encouraging harm, given certain religious assumptions, and would thus <br>> > feel compelled to "alter" the billboard.<br>> ><br>> > <br>> > On 11/14/09, *Donovan Arnold* <donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com <br>> > <mailto:donovanjarnold2008@yahoo.com>> wrote:<br>> > <br>> ><br>> > Awesome and insightful post Mr. Moffett! I can only hope others<br>> > will read and understand your expertly stated explanation of his<br>> > person or persons behaviors toward that sign.<br>> > <br>> > I personally don't think that vandalism is the best way to remove<br>> > the sign. I would do a price beat with the sign company for the<br>> > space, or I would petition the city to remove all of those ugly<br>> > roadside signs that destroy the environment and the beauty of the<br>> > Palouse.<br>> > <br>> > Your Friend,<br>> > <br>> > Donovan Arnold<br>> > --- On *Sat, 11/14/09, Ted Moffett /<starbliss@gmail.com<br>> > <mailto:starbliss@gmail.com>>/* wrote:<br>> > <br>> ><br>> ><br>> > From: Ted Moffett <starbliss@gmail.com<br>> > <mailto:starbliss@gmail.com>><br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And Yet, The Saga Continues . . .<br>> > To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter@yahoo.com<br>> > <mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com>><br>> > Cc: vision2020@moscow.com <mailto:vision2020@moscow.com><br>> > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 9:46 PM<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Absolute certainty in a belief that if someone does not<br>> > believe in God, their "eternal soul" is damned forever,<br>> > renders the "Millions are Good without God" message one<br>> > that might do great harm, for someone who takes this belief<br>> > with utmost seriousness and acts accordingly. From this point<br>> > of view, it is not "benignly worded," but suggests that not<br>> > believing in God is an acceptable option, when in fact the<br>> > fate of a persons eternal soul is in jeopardy, if they take<br>> > the billboard seriously.<br>> > <br>> > Those who argue that religion is not a primary source of<br>> > problems in our world seem to downplay that if someone<br>> > takes certain rather incredible yet common religious beliefs<br>> > seriously, and acts upon them, vandalism, war, bigotry, etc.,<br>> > become reasonable. The aggressive tactics of missionaries<br>> > (sometimes not calling themselves "missionaries" explicitly)<br>> > have been and still are defended given the logic that if<br>> > unbelievers are not converted, their eternal souls are lost;<br>> > extreme measures are reasonable given this logic. What is the<br>> > importance of one human biological lifetime compared to the<br>> > future life of an eternal soul?<br>> > <br>> > If I really believed with certainty that those who do not<br>> > believe in God would have their eternal soul damned, I might<br>> > defend vandalizing a billboard with a message suggesting that<br>> > not believing in God is acceptable, as a form of "civil<br>> > disobedience," a moral duty, even if illegal and risking<br>> > penalties from the justice system of the State.<br>> > <br>> > I'm not sure what Thoreau would think about a billboard<br>> > vandalized due to religious principles:<br>> > <br>> > From Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience," available online in total<br>> > at the website below:<br>> > <br>> > "Unjust laws exist; shall we be content to obey them, or shall<br>> > we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have<br>> > succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once? Men generally,<br>> > under such a government as this, think that they ought to wait<br>> > until they have persuaded the majority to alter them. They<br>> > think that, if they should resist, the remedy would be worse<br>> > than the evil. But it is the fault of the government itself<br>> > that the remedy /is /worse than the evil. /It/ makes it worse.<br>> > Why is it not more apt to anticipate and provide for reform?<br>> > Why does it not cherish its wise minority? Why does it cry and<br>> > resist before it is hurt? Why does it not encourage its<br>> > citizens to be on the alert to point out its faults, and /do/<br>> > better than it would have them?"<br>> > <br>> > *Civil Disobedience - Part 1 of 3*<br>> > <br>> > http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil1.html<br>> > <br>> > ------------------------------------------<br>> > Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett<br>> ><br>> > <br>> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Paul Rumelhart<br>> > <godshatter@yahoo.com<br>> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=godshatter@yahoo.com>><br>> > wrote:<br>> ><br>> > It's not the fact that it's a little vandalism that is the<br>> > important<br>> > point, at least to me. It's the intolerance of such a<br>> > benignly worded<br>> > sign that I find astounding.<br>> ><br>> > Paul<br>> ><br>> > the lockshop wrote:<br>> > > "...this is attention Moscow can do without."<br>> > ><br>> > > While I agree that it's not terribly flattering for<br>> > Moscow's reputation as<br>> > > the most left leaning township in Idaho, I hardly see it<br>> > as anti-crime<br>> > > priority #1. After all, what's the worst that might come<br>> > of the negative<br>> > > publicity? The American Atheist Assn. won't have it's<br>> > winter solstice<br>> > > bachanal in our bustling metropolis? Or, perhaps the ACLU<br>> > spring fertility<br>> > > rite and craft fair will see attendance suffer? I very<br>> > much doubt it.<br>> > ><br>> > > If this is the most egregious crime to be reported from<br>> > our sleepy little<br>> > > burg to make the internet rounds, I'll be happy to admit<br>> > that, while I don't<br>> > > care for vandalism of any kind, compared to other forms<br>> > of noteriety we<br>> > > could be villified for, I'll somehow find a way to come<br>> > to terms with the<br>> > > shame.<br>> > ><br>> > > g<br>> > > ----- Original Message -----<br>> > > From: "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1@verizon.net<br>> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kmmos1@verizon.net>><br>> > > To: <vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>><br>> > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:57 PM<br>> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And Yet, The Saga Continues . . .<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > >> On Thursday 12 November 2009 12:09:48 Tom Hansen wrote:<br>> > >><br>> > >>> For a historical aspect of dastardly doings done dirty<br>> > . . .<br>> > >>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/Photos/GoodGod.htm<br>> > >>><br>> > >> Following the URL www.americanhumanist.org<br>> > <http://www.americanhumanist.org/> to their web site, then<br>> > >> entering Moscow in the site's Search box, reveals that<br>> > their site is<br>> > >> reporting the vandalism Internet-wide. Since this is<br>> > attention Moscow<br>> > >> can do without, it behooves local law enforcement<br>> > personnel to do<br>> > >> everything reasonably possible to bring closure to this<br>> > matter.<br>> > >><br>> > >><br>> > >> Ken<br>> > >><br>> > >> =======================================================<br>> > >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> > >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> > >> http://www.fsr.net <http://www.fsr.net/><br>> > >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com><br>> > >> =======================================================<br>> > >><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > No virus found in this incoming message.<br>> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/><br>> > > Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.62/2499 -<br>> > Release Date: 11/12/09<br>> > > 06:33:00<br>> > ><br>> > > =======================================================<br>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> > > http://www.fsr.net <http://www.fsr.net/><br>> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com><br>> > > =======================================================<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > =======================================================<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> > http://www.fsr.net <http://www.fsr.net/><br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com><br>> > =======================================================<br>> > <br>> ><br>> ><br>> > <br>> ><br>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>> ><br>> > =======================================================<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> > http://www.fsr.net <http://www.fsr.net/> <br>> > <br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com><br>> > =======================================================<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> <br>> <br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> http://www.fsr.net <br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> =======================================================<br> <br /><hr />Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. <a href='http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
' target='_new'>Sign up now.</a></body>
</html>