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Sorry for the dely folks, not that your waiting for my every word and all. This is a topic that concerns me though.<BR>
<BR>
I do feel that we all have something in common, safety for the bikers/pedestrians. I have no doubt that drivers need to slow down and pay attention. I also feel it goes both ways. Bikers need too do the same plain and simple. Every day I see an act that could end in a bad accident caused by a biker. Same goes with the drivers. Both parties are guilty. However, safety is the issue.<BR>
Pay the f*&k attention.<BR>
<BR>
Tom and Joe; When did I ever mention ANYTHING about BIG vehicles? I statedicles are big moving objects, one that I would want to avoid. Did I ever mention anything how my massive truck, one I use for work, has no abilty to stop for all foot traffic, or abide by the law.<BR>
<BR>
Tom; When I first joined this list back around 2002 I heard you are a man of honor and respect. A man that will realize when hes in the wrong. I have yet to see that with you. You care nothing but your cause, even when wrong. Last case. You made a statement that big vehicles are commonly seen as overcompensating something else. Obviosly directed towards me. Yes Tom I can take a joke but can you? My question to you is, a man of principle, respect, integrity, is can you appalogize for your comment?<BR>
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<BR>
MD<BR><BR>
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From: philosopher.joe@gmail.com<BR>To: deco@moscow.com<BR>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:54:47 -0700<BR>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MPD Press Release<BR><BR>
<DIV>Great letter! Just to be clear, I agree with Matt, Sunil, and Paul that there are problematic bikers. I disagree that the best solution is biker beware. As a biker, I see the truth in biker beware. I have a family; I'm not going to get myself killed. But I'm not the problem. I ride primarily on trails. I'm not the one darting in front of your cars. Ticket those idiots, as Wayne suggests. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I just want my right of way respected when I have it. I mentioned three times in the last week where it was not. One time was a white truck that accelerated from 1/2 block away. There biker beware is a dangerous political dogma.<BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Oct 30, 2009, at 10:32 AM, "Art Deco" <<A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>There is no doubt that Matt, Sunil, Paul are correct about the behavior of certain pedestrians and bicyclists (and skateboarders, roller skaters, scooter riders, et al). Some are carelessly stupid. When caught, they ought be cited for their own good, and for the good of safe drivers who might unavoidably collide with them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>However, the number of serious vehicle infractions -- not stopping for traffic signals or stop signs, not stopping when there is clearly time for pedestrians, etc in crosswalks, making unsafe turns and/or entrances, highly inappropriate speed -- that I frequently observe is frightening.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I am sure that many are tired of hearing about this, but yesterday, I had another close call at Washington and 3rd. I was going east on 3rd and stopped for the light. The light turned green. I looked but didn't see anyone coming north on Washington. Just as I started to move and was crossing the pedestrian lane a SUV on Washington sped through the signal turning left onto 3rd. I had to brake sharply to avoid being t-boned.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>This intersection is only one block from the MPD office. The kind of incident I describe above is not uncommon. Frequently cars turning left onto 3rd violate not only the traffic signal laws, but pull out and block east moving traffic on 3rd when there obviously isn't a place on the north side of 3rd for them to clear from the oncoming traffic.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>It's not rocket science. If the MPD wants to have a concentrated enforcement action, then run a sting on that intersection for a month. Maybe the money collected from such a sting would help defray the expenses incurred by Steed, Krauss, their clueless leader, John Weber, and the City of Moscow trying to avoid complying with public records laws.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO Box 9421<BR>Moscow, ID 83843</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><A href="mailto:waf@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:waf@moscow.com">waf@moscow.com</A></A><BR>208 882-7975</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=godshatter@yahoo.com href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">Sunil Ramalingam</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 30, 2009 7:25 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] MPD Press Release</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>In the Navy, we called this the "Law of Gross Tonnage". A sailboat <BR>theoretically has right of way over an aircraft carrier, but good luck <BR>asserting that right.<BR><BR>The one thing I wish some bicyclists would clue in on: car's don't stop <BR>on a dime. They have a certain momentum that has to be taken into <BR>account. In a fight between even a small car's mass and a bicycle, <BR>guess who's going to win? Yeah, you might theoretically have had the <BR>right of way - but it will do you little good when you are dead.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>Sunil Ramalingam wrote:<BR>> Joe and Tom,<BR>><BR>> It was clear to me that Matt was not saying that 'Might makes Right,' <BR>> or that he wanted to speed through town with disregard for the rights <BR>> of bike riders. I don't see that in what he wrote. I do see him <BR>> asking for the law to be applied to drivers and bike riders.<BR>><BR>> What he did express, and I share it with him, is frustration for bike <BR>> riders who at best ride like boneheads, if not sphincters. I still <BR>> ride my bike some of the time, and I lived for years in Davis, CA, <BR>> where I rode everywhere for years. And I don't ride down the middle <BR>> of a one-way street expecting cars and trucks to get out of my way. I <BR>> don't ride on a sidewalk if there are pedestrians on it, and I sure <BR>> don't ride on a sidewalk and dart into traffic without making eye <BR>> contact with the drivers heading towards me.<BR>><BR>> Vehicle size DOES matter. That semi is not going to stop in time if I <BR>> zip in front of it. Inertia is going to trump everything else, and a <BR>> healthy sense of self-preservation ought to be front and center in <BR>> each bike rider's mind when on the road.<BR>><BR>> Sunil<BR>><BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> From: <A href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><A href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A></A><BR>> To: <A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com"><A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com">mattd2107@hotmail.com</A></A><BR>> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 04:01:37 -0700<BR>> CC: <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A></A><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MPD Press Release<BR>><BR>> Is your politcal philosophy 'might makes right'? You make it seem as <BR>> if all that matters is the size of the vehical. <BR>><BR>> Look, you live in a town where a lot of folks ride bikes. Get over it, <BR>> slow down, and observe all traffic laws. <BR>><BR>> When you come to a crosswalk slow down since it is possible that some <BR>> dumb kid might come darting in front of your BIG vehical. Likely he <BR>> didn't read your warning and although he'll be dead you'll have to <BR>> live with your own carelessness for the rest of your life. And when <BR>> his parents sue you, your previous post is not going to look so good <BR>> in court.<BR>><BR>> Slow down; yeild to those with right of way. Not too much to ask!<BR>><BR>> Sent from my iPhone<BR>><BR>> On Oct 29, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Matt Decker <<A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com"><A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com">mattd2107@hotmail.com</A></A> <BR>> <<A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com"><A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com">mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com</A></A>>> wrote:<BR>><BR>> Does this impede the abilty to navigate the bike, such as down the<BR>> wrong way of the middle of the one way street. Kind of like what I<BR>> had to break hard with my truck and trailer today.<BR>> <BR>> To all bikers.....................<BR>> <BR>> I do not understand why it is such a hard concept to understand a<BR>> vehicle is a big moving object. One that can cause really bad<BR>> damage to the body if contact was made. I, and believe most<BR>> drivers try to be observant to the surroundings but accidents do<BR>> happen. With the sue happy society we have, I dread the idea of a<BR>> biker breaking the law but I happen to get nailed with the citation.<BR>> <BR>> I just ask that all bikers, pedestrians, and drivers use their<BR>> heads as well as live to the law and common sense.<BR>> <BR>><BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:21:14 -0700<BR>> From: <A href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com"><A href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">rforce2003@yahoo.com</A></A> <<A href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com"><A href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com</A></A>><BR>> To: <A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com"><A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com">mattd2107@hotmail.com</A></A> <<A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com"><A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com">mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com</A></A>>;<BR>> <A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A></A> <<A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">mailto:deco@moscow.com</A></A>>; <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A></A><BR>> <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020@moscow.com</A></A>><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MPD Press Release<BR>><BR>> You should signal if you can, but sometimes you're leaning on the<BR>> brakes or holding on for dear life (usually, in my case).<BR>><BR>> (4) A signal of intention to turn right or left shall be given<BR>> during not<BR>> less than the last one hundred (100) feet traveled by the bicycle<BR>> before<BR>> turning, provided that a signal by hand and arm need not be given<BR>> if the hand<BR>> is needed in the control or operation of the bicycle.<BR>> <A href="http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=490070020.K"><A href="http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=490070020.K">http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=490070020.K</A></A><BR>><BR>> Ron Force<BR>> Moscow ID USA<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> *From:* Matt Decker <<A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com"><A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com">mattd2107@hotmail.com</A></A><BR>> <<A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com"><A href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com">mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com</A></A>>><BR>> *To:* <A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A></A> <<A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">mailto:deco@moscow.com</A></A>>;<BR>> <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A></A> <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020@moscow.com</A></A>><BR>> *Sent:* Wed, October 28, 2009 7:47:44 PM<BR>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] MPD Press Release<BR>><BR>> Just counted four bikers not use turn signals today. Two more<BR>> swirve from sidewalk to other sidewalk and one more blow through a<BR>> stoplight today. That was just my usual 30 minute time<BR>> downtown/campus.<BR>> <BR>> So my question to you, why not ticket those infractions as well as<BR>> the usual driver ones too? What is so wrong with biker safety?<BR>> <BR>> MD<BR>><BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> From: <A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A></A> <<A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">mailto:deco@moscow.com</A></A>><BR>> To: <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A></A> <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020@moscow.com</A></A>><BR>> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:02:41 -0700<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MPD Press Release<BR>><BR>> Bicyclists and pedestrians are the enemy. <BR>> Motorized vehicles are our friends.<BR>> <BR>> Therefore,<BR>> <BR>> The MPD doesn't give a rat's ass about vehicle infractions except<BR>> DUIs , especially if they are not committed by white trash or<BR>> other minorities.<BR>> <BR>> W.<BR>><BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> *From:* Joe Campbell <<A href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><A href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A></A>><BR>> *To:* Stephanie Kalasz <<A href="mailto:skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us"><A href="mailto:skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us">mailto:skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us</A></A>><BR>> *Cc:* v2020 <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020@moscow.com</A></A>><BR>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:03 PM<BR>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] MPD Press Release<BR>><BR>> Why have I not seen one reminder yet of the responsibilities<BR>> of the driver? Just the other day I saw a police car drive<BR>> through a crosswalk while people were walking in it. How many<BR>> citations were written for this offense, I wonder?<BR>><BR>> Sent from my iPhone<BR>><BR>> On Oct 27, 2009, at 4:34 PM, "Stephanie Kalasz"<BR>> <<A href="mailto:skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us"><A href="mailto:skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us">skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us</A></A> <<A href="mailto:skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us"><A href="mailto:skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us">mailto:skalasz@ci.moscow.id.us</A></A>>> wrote:<BR>><BR>> MOSCOW POLICE DEPARTMENT<BR>><BR>> 118 East 4th Street<BR>><BR>> Moscow, Idaho 83843<BR>><BR>> Tel: 208-882-COPS Fax: 208-882-4020<BR>><BR>><BR>> *PRESS RELEASE*<BR>><BR>> Moscow Police Department Officers are focusing efforts on<BR>> increasing public awareness related to bicycle safety.<BR>><BR>> In an effort to increase public awareness and reduce the<BR>> number of vehicle/bicycle collisions, M.P.D. Officers will<BR>> be focusing their efforts on violations pertaining to the<BR>> following traffic codes:<BR>><BR>> -Idaho Code: 49-720<BR>><BR>> When approaching a stop sign, on a roadway, bicycles must<BR>> slow to a reasonable speed and yield to vehicles in the<BR>> intersection and vehicles approaching the intersection; so<BR>> close as to constitute an immediate hazard. Even though<BR>> bicycles are not required to come to a complete stop at<BR>> stop signs, if they are on the roadway, they are not<BR>> excused from yielding and proceeding, only after waiting<BR>> their appropriate turn. Their turn to proceed is assigned<BR>> the same as that of other vehicles on the roadway.<BR>><BR>> -Idaho Code: 49-720<BR>><BR>> A bicycle, operated on the roadway, must stop when<BR>> approaching a red traffic signal. The Bicyclist may then<BR>> proceed as if the red light is a stop sign. The bicyclist<BR>> must yield the right of way to all vehicles operating on<BR>> the roadway with the applicable green or yellow light.<BR>><BR>> -Idaho Code: 49-702, 49-714<BR>><BR>> Bicycles operated on the roadway have the same<BR>> responsibilities as motor vehicles to use appropriate<BR>> lanes, appropriate speed, direction of travel, to not<BR>> impede traffic, and yield or stop if need be for<BR>> pedestrians in crosswalks. Bicycles are not permitted to<BR>> pass vehicles on the right and bicyclists are required to<BR>> use due caution.<BR>><BR>> -Idaho Code: 49-721<BR>><BR>> Bicycles must yield to foot traffic when on sidewalks.<BR>><BR>> -Idaho Code: 49-803<BR>><BR>> Pedestrians and bicycles leaving sidewalks must obey<BR>> pedestrian control signals. It is unlawful to begin<BR>> crossing the roadway when a signal shows a solid or<BR>> flashing “Don’t Walk”.<BR>><BR>> -Idaho Code: 49-704<BR>><BR>> It is unlawful for pedestrians to cross roadways<BR>> diagonally or between adjacent intersections where traffic<BR>> signals are in operation.<BR>><BR>> DANIEL L. WEAVER<BR>> <BR>> Prepared by:<BR>><BR>> Chief of<BR>> Police <BR>> Officer Bruce Lovell<BR>><BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/"><A href="http://www.fsr.net/">http://www.fsr.net/</A></A> <BR>> <A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A></A><BR>> =======================================================<BR>><BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>><BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/"><A href="http://www.fsr.net/">http://www.fsr.net</A></A> <BR>> <A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A></A><BR>> =======================================================<BR>><BR>><BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> Windows 7: Simplify your PC. 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<DIV><SPAN>=======================================================</SPAN><BR><SPAN>List services made available by First Step Internet, </SPAN><BR><SPAN>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. </SPAN><BR><SPAN> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/">http://www.fsr.net</A> </SPAN><BR><SPAN> <A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A></A></SPAN><BR><SPAN>=======================================================</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <br /><hr />New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. <a href='http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pc-scout/default.aspx?CBID=wl&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_pcscout:112009' target='_new'>Learn more.</a></body>
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