<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Sunil,<div><br></div><div>First, you are totally correct about Afghanistan NEVER having been successfully occupied throughout history, and to try that today is total folly if not insanity.</div><div><br></div><div>Having said that, do I think that there could be any kind of success over there? YES, I do, but not if we keep going the way we are now. First, we need to cut our troop </div><div>numbers in half, and loose ALL of the mercenaries/contractors we have over there. And of the 35k soldiers that are left, we need to swap them out and put in more builders,</div><div>trainers and consensus builders on the ground. The Afghan's that I met over the last 7 years don't want or need a hand out, they need a hand up. When the military adopted</div><div>the Rumsfeld doctrine /mind set that the military is not a "nation building" organization, we were doomed to failure there. </div><div><br></div><div>Can it be brought around? YES, it can, but not with what we're doing now. The solution to Afghanistan's problems HAS to be an Afghanistani solution, not one dreamed</div><div>up by middle class white guys and imposed on them from Washington or the Pentagon. Has ANYONE read anywhere what Afghanistan is supposed to look like when we</div><div>declare victory and leave? It's not good enough to say we don't know what success is supposed to look like, but we'll know it when we get there!</div><div><br></div><div>Let's just take this last election over there as an example. Do you really trust the accuracy of the vote counting? Has the US come out and said, "Wait a minute, the election was so riddled with </div><div>fraud that we have to go back to square one and start all over"? Nope! And why not? Well, what happens when the Afghanistani leader that we hand picked, Karzai, looks the Americans in the eye and say, Is my election any more or less suspect than George Bush's in 2001? Do we have the testical fortitude to tell him, no, it isn't but here you are going to do it over again or you have lost our support. The people of Afghanistan are a proud</div><div>noble people. Prior to the last election Karzai was at best considered the Mayor of Kabul, now he is considered the fraudulently elected Mayor of Kabul!</div><div><br></div><div>Now, there are some hard liners here that would ask: What if they elect someone that doesn't like Americans? GREAT! That makes the withdrawal even easier, and it IS a great victory for democracy! THE PEOPLE</div><div>elected a government that wants us out, that is their will and desire, IF it is an honest election, not like the farce that they just went through.</div><div><br></div><div>Now, as to the matter of Pakistan, and the acts of war that we continue to commit against them. Attacks on <b>sovereign</b> Pakistani territory, without the permission of the government ,is an act of war and I can only assume at this point there is some reason why the government of Pakistan hasn't hauled the US before the UN for an answer to some very pointed questions. What a GREAT way to build friendships in the area!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Sep 16, 2009, at 9:58 AM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div class="hmmessage" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; ">I'm with Chuck on this. Obama has adopted the prosecution of the Afghanistan war, and it will go no better for him than for Bush, and no better than Vietnam went for the presidents who prosecuted that war.<br><br>If anyone can show me where there has been a successful occupation of Afghanistan, I'll be willing to look at it, and perhaps think there's a reason to change my mind. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Continued bombing in Pakistan by unmanned aircraft. How can this be considered anything but an act of war? How can a legitimate Pakistani government remain in power while allowing this to happen? Would you support an American leader who allowed someone to bomb us? Why would anyone think it would succeed in Afghanistan or Pakistan?<br><br>Sunil<br><br>> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:29:50 -0700<br>> From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>> To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ckovis@turbonet.com">ckovis@turbonet.com</a><br>> CC:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Chuck -<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Barack Obama has been in office less than eight months. He has alot more<br>> on his proverbial "dinner plate" than virtually any president in US<br>> history (with the exception of Lincoln).<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Considering the circumstances, I believe he is doing (at worst) an<br>> acceptable job.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Heck!! King George the 43rd had vowed, and promised the American people,<br>> that he would apprehend Usama bin Laden and bring him to justice. That<br>> promise he made seven years ago.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Usama bin Laden has yet to be apprehended, in spite of his cameo<br>> apppearances on classmates.com and a gurantee made by McCain.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> And how about McCain? You remember him, right? He told the American<br>> people (during his campaign last year) that he knows how to catch bin<br>> Laden, and that he (McCain) would do just that once he (McCain) is sworn<br>> in as president.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Why won't he (McCain) shre this secret with us?<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> JEESH!<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Tom Hansen<br>> Moscow, Idaho<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > Tom, we don't have King George anymore. We have Obama. A person for whom<br>> > I<br>> > voted. And he isn't getting us out! Out! Just get the hell out. That's<br>> > all. Chuck Kovis<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> =======================================================<br>=======================================================<br>List services made available by First Step Internet,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <br> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================</div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>