<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>The outrage is not only because of the remark but because Rammell refused to apologize for making it -- and still does. Here, again, is the comment:</div><div><br></div><div>"The Obama tags? We'd buy some of these."</div><div><br></div><div>In addition to the "vague threat" there is the implicature that Rammell wants Obama dead. At a rally a Republican candidate conveys that he wishes the sitting president dead, "vaguely" hinting that his campaign team would even be interested in doing it. That is not just "ill-advised" but is so over-the-top offensive and stupid that it requires an apology at the very least. You on the other hand are still thinking about whether or not to vote for the idiot.</div><div><br></div><div>And it would be one thing if it were an isolated incident but "jokes" about killing Obama started before he was even elected (recall the tasteless cartoon on your buddy Dale's website). Add to that the fact that he has recieved death threats and, as Andreas pointed out, there are members of the lunatic fringe right coming to Obama speaches with guns.<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Sep 2, 2009, at 5:48 AM, "g. crabtree" <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div>"Seriously, was that really that hard? All you had to say was "Rex Rammell
represents the 'I Hate Jim Risch' party, not me."</div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Slow down there, sonny buttons! From the beginning
of this topic I agreed that Rammell's remarks were "ill advised," I just didn't
think that they rose to the level of anything very serious. Certainly nothing
adequate to generate the outrage that was pouring in from the left. I
fervently believe that he has a right to run for Risch's office and whether or
not he'll receive any support from me remains to be seen.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">By the way, thanks for clearing up the "cruise o"
thing. I was guessing you were shooting for Oldsmobile and I was ready to
denounce you with my last dying breath. I firmly believe in the right to keep
and bear clunkers.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">g</font></div>
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="ophite@gmail.com" href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">Andreas Schou</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="jampot@roadrunner.com" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g. crabtree</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Moscow Vision 2020</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 02, 2009 2:15
AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] 'Obama Tags'
Called a Joke</div>
<div><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:45 PM, g. crabtree <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Puppeteer? I would never have
thought THAT ill of you. However I might have had you pegged as
sympathetic to Code Pink. </font></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br>Of course I am, for some minimal value of "sympathetic." As are a lot
of politicians. But there's a difference between some vague sympathy in
ideological outlook and believing they're doing more good than harm.<br><br>I
was in favor of the Afghan war. I think the Iraq war was a bad policy decision
which killed a lot of Americans and Iraqis. However, I don't think the war was
"for Israel" or whatever, or that the Bush administration misled the relevant
stakeholders out of anything other than blind faith that the relevant
intelligence actually existed. Even insofar as I share some policy goals (end
the war cleanly and quickly) I don't think shouting at wounded soldiers even
vaguely traces a line from point A to point B. Instead, I put shoe leather to
pavement and tried to elect someone less prone to bad decisions. <br><br>In
the same vein, I expect that you're sympathetic with the militia movement to
some extent, in that you believe that our government should keep taxes low and
not prevent citizens from owning whatever piece of woodchuck-vaporizing
ordnance they please. This minimal coordination of interests does not mean
that I think you're a foaming birther who thinks that Venezuelan communists
stole our last election. There's a difference, <br><br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I also might have imagined that you were down
with HCI, the Brady campaign, and the so called assault weapons ban. I'm
pleasantly surprised to be wrong.</font></div></div></blockquote>
<div></div>
<div><br>Guns are not my problem. I think people can reasonably differ on the
subject, but especially here in Idaho, there's no reason to hyperventilate
about citizens owning anything short of a cruise o.<br><br>I think the 2nd
Amendment is prickly because it contemplates a United States that didn't end
up happening, but that the founders probably meant it to contain an individual
(though not absolutely unconditional) right to bear arms. Whether it does or
not isn't a particular personal concern, as pointy forks (much less guns) are
a problem at my level of coordination. However, since no one appears to
believe that the 2nd Amendment creates a right for citizens to form private
armies and shoot at cops and soldiers, the weapons people choose to spend
their money on seems like a matter of conscience and good sense rather than a
matter of pressing national concern.<br> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">You are correct that your testosterone pumped
presence comes through loud and clear in your every post but, it seems a
mite presumptuous to expect one group of crazies (gun toters) to accede to
the desires for comfort of another group of crazies (puppeteers and
anti-corporate window breakers and stone
throwers).</font></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br>I think "please don't bring your gun when you meet the President" is
an unexpressed rule of etiquette and good sense similar to "please don't wear
your buttless leather chaps to meet the Pope." It is baffling to me that
anyone needs to be told to do so, especially as doing so is likely to result
in being on the business end of a stranger's firearm. I am uncomfortable
around people who are happy being on the business end of such a
firearm.<br><br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Since neither your presence nor mine is
required at any of these soirees why don't we compromise, boycott the
events, and meet me at the nearest bar where I will attempt to do
grievous damage to your liver. The crazies deserve one another and the
philosophy department can tell us all about any excitement we may
have missed.</font></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br>Seriously, was that really that hard? All you had to say was "Rex
Rammell represents the 'I Hate Jim Risch' party, not me." The guy got sued
last campaign for using the Republican party's logo on his campaign
materials. He only runs for public office because Risch done kilt his
elk. Consequently, he's the only one responsible for his escalating bizarre
behavior, and Idaho's Republican establishment has surprisingly done the right
thing by kicking him while he's down.<br><br>Unless, of course, Jim Risch is
as bad as Rex says.<br></div></div></blockquote>
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