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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I see my response didn't post to the greater list. Lest
anyone think I'm ducking Mr. Ramalingam's question...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Sunil,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I am of two minds on the subject. On one hand I would be
fine with decriminalization, I do see it as a personal choice issue as well as a
little potential chlorine for the gene pool. On the other hand, do you want the
meth lab to be located next to your home or childrens school?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">Sunil Ramalingam</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 24, 2009 11:05
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] "Please do not
continue to confuse peoplewith facts."</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Gary,<BR><BR>Do you have an answer to my original
questions?<BR><BR>Sunil<BR><BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
From: <A
href="mailto:lockshop@pull.twcbc.com">lockshop@pull.twcbc.com</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A><BR>Date:
Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:55:02 -0700<BR>CC: <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] "Please do not continue to confuse people with facts."<BR><BR>
<STYLE>
</STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is mis-stating my position really the only way
you can think of to try and make a valid point?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As I have said repeatedly, I believe that if
homosexuals can find someone who is willing to pronounce them man and man,
wife and wife, or man, wife, wife, or any permutation thereof then swell,
I wish them the best. What I am not in favor of is in my or the state being
forced to recognize it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>With regard to the abortion issue though
I've really got to admit that you've got me caught on the horns of a
delimma. How could I not see the similarity between making a choice that
has a 1 in 15 chance of potentially damaging the health of the
person doing the choosing and making a decision that has a
100% chance of killing an innocent party?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In both of your examples the decision extends to
others who will not be given a choice to participate. Bar patrons and
employess do get to make an informed choice and as a result your comments seem
a trifle lame.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=philosopher.joe@gmail.com
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">Joe Campbell</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=lockshop@pull.twcbc.com href="mailto:lockshop@pull.twcbc.com">the
lockshop</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Cc:</B>
<A title=tim.rigsby@hotmail.com href="mailto:tim.rigsby@hotmail.com">TIM
RIGSBY</A> ; <A title=starbliss@gmail.com
href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com%3E"><starbliss@gmail.com></A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com%3E"><vision2020@moscow.com></A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, July 24, 2009 9:29 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] "Please do not continue to confuse people with
facts."</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>You don't even think that ADULTS are able to make decisions about whom
to marry or whether pr not to have children, so stop pretending to respect a
person's right to make decisions for him or herself! <BR><BR>Sent from
my iPhone</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Jul 24, 2009, at 12:11 PM, "the lockshop" <<A
href="mailto:lockshop@pull.twcbc.com">lockshop@pull.twcbc.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It would seem that you, Mr. Moffet, and our city
council have a mighty low opinion of the intelligence of the patrons and
employees of bars and taverns. I can't speak for your students but, I find
it very difficult to believe that by the time a citizen reaches the age of
21 in the United States he hasn't heard the anti-smoking mantra
to the point of nausea.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>How lucky we are that there are people out there who
will take it upon themselves to prevent emancipated Americans from making
their own decisions with regard to the risks they take in
life.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tim.rigsby@hotmail.com href="mailto:tim.rigsby@hotmail.com">TIM
RIGSBY</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=starbliss@gmail.com href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com"></A><A
href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com">starbliss@gmail.com</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"></A><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, July 24, 2009 7:47 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] "Please do not continue to confuse people with
facts."</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I would like to add the idea of this
saying,<BR><BR>"Don't let the facts get in the way of a good
story."<BR><BR>Either way Ted, you brought up some very valid points
that tend to be forgotten when people discuss tobacco/smoking regulation
and legislation. What scares me as a Health Teacher is when I hear
my junior high and high school aged students talking about how safe,
they think anyway, Hookah bars are. When asked if they would ever
smoke cigarettes, they claim that they won't. Yet what these
students don't realize is that they are actually smoking tobacco at the
high school hookah parties. What is even scarier is a lot of the
parents think that hookah is a safe alternative as well.
<BR><BR>The hookah bar closest to my house in Boise is constantly packed
with young people all of the time. Often times, other substances
are being laced into the tobacco as well and these young people are
unknowingly smoking illegal drugs along with their fruit and tobacco
mixture.<BR><BR>I predict in the not so distant future, Boise and
possibly the State Legislature will enact legislation to
regulate/control these hookah establishments.<BR><BR>Here is a question
to ponder. By definition based on Idaho Code, what is a hookah bar
categorized as? A restaurant, a bar, a private club? If it
falls under the bar definition, then people under 21 should not be
allowed in. It seems as though hookah bars would fall into an
undefined gray area of the Idaho Clean Indoor Air Act. However,
Moscow seems to have covered hookah bars in their recent ban of smoking,
I could be wrong though.<BR><BR>" 'Politics is the art of controlling
your environment.' That is one of the key things I learned in these
years, and I learned it the hard way. Anybody who thinks that 'it
doesn't matter who's President' has never been Drafted and sent off to
fight and die in a vicious, stupid War on the other side of the World --
or been beaten and gassed by Police for trespassing on public property
-- or been hounded by the IRS for purely political reasons -- or locked
up in the Cook County Jail with a broken nose and no phone access and
twelve perverts wanting to stomp your ass in the shower. That is when it
matters who is President or Governor or Police Chief. That is when you
will wish you had voted." - Hunter S. Thompson<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<HR id=EC_stopSpelling>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:39:45 -0700<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com"></A><A
href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com">starbliss@gmail.com</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"></A><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Subject:
[Vision2020] "Please do not continue to confuse people with
facts."<BR><BR>
<DIV>The "Off List" response referenced, from someone I regard as one of
the most educated and honest Vision2020 participants, that I
received to my post below on tobacco regulation, is in total what is
stated in the subject heading of this post. Wise words, no doubt,
that I ignore at my own risk... </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Notice there is limited or no discussion of some of the critical
facts my post presented: that tobacco (nicotine) is a
physically addictive drug, with underage tobacco addiction common,
raising questions if whether adult "choice" is in effect regarding
employees or consumers in tobacco related decisions; that tobacco
is the leading cause of premature death (nuclear waste or energy or even
nuclear weapons production is not even close as a cause of premature
death); that other drugs doing less harm to society than tobacco are
criminalized and prosecuted aggressively, involving civil and human
rights violations, yet who among those opposing regulation of
tobacco, will as aggressively advocate for these drugs to be
managed by free choice and the marketplace, rather than a government
"Big Brother?" Some, perhaps... While there are others who should
know better playing some on this list as fools, for the sake of
debate, or political advantage, or popular image or whatever... Or they
are as deluded as those they are debating with...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My response to the "Off List" comment discussed here:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ummm... OK, I guess... However, being an idealist in belief that
expressing the truth is morally mandated (where did I get that dangerous
idea? I''ll end up in serious trouble! Oh, I forgot, I
already am...), I may not comply. I recently read a
variation of this same expression in James Lovelock's "Revenge of
Gaia:" "Don't confuse me with the facts, my minds made up."
Lovelock was referring to this mentality regarding the rejection of
nuclear power by many in the environmental movement.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><SPAN class=EC_EC_sg>
<DIV>Ted<BR> </DIV></SPAN><SPAN class=q
id=EC_EC_q_122aa783745cbaea_2>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=EC_EC_gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Please do not continue to confuse people with
facts. </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=starbliss@gmail.com href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com">Ted
Moffett</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Moscow Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Wednesday, July 22, 2009 1:55 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[Vision2020] Tobacco: Targeting the Nation’s Leading Killer: Centers
for Disease Control</DIV>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<DIV>Tobacco (nicotine) is a physically addictive drug. Once
addicted, "choice" becomes a problematic concept. And many
people become addicted while underage, encouraged to continue their
addiction in bars, where cigarettes are often shared between
customers. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The fact tobacco is physically addictive is absent from the
comments of many opposing the smoking ordinance, as are the facts
regarding the magnitude of the damage. Comparisons
to other harmful behaviors are drawn (fatty food, etc.),
suggesting that a slippery slope of regulation will lead to
government control over too many aspects of life, but many of these
behaviors do not involve a drug addiction. Of course
alcohol has dramatic negative impacts. But workers in bars are
not forced to drink the drinks the customers order, as
they breathe the smoke of the customers. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I find it incredible that the health of workers exposed to an
addictive drug when they breathe in the workplace is approached so
callously. They can work elsewhere, it's announced with smug
authority, as if in this economy workers have the luxury of choosing
whatever job suits their fancy, rather than an urgency to take
whatever work they can find. If it was cocaine or heroin or
methamphetamine that workers were exposed to, the attitude might be
different. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Profits from exposing workers to addictive drugs in the
workplace should be protected based on free market, free choice,
adult responsibility? If this is the logic, where are the
protests against laws imposed on those selling
cocaine, heroin or methamphetamine, et. al., to consenting
adults, which can result in long prison sentences? Let the
free market decide! Why stand in the way of profits and
the free choice of adults? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If those opposing the smoking ordinance were consistent in
their outrage against limits on the free market, their ideology
might have more intellectual credibility. Instead, the
libertarianism proposed is inconsistent and conformist. Or
perhaps those opposed to the smoking ordinance will now protest that
bars do not allow legal cocaine, heroin or methamphetamine
use? Think of the profits to be made! And remember,
tobacco prematurely kills more people than those three drugs
combined...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If attempts were made to criminalize tobacco like cannabis is,
resulting in prison sentences, home invasions, for sale or use, I
would oppose this vehemently. But an ordinance regulating
smoking in bars does not stop any adult from legally using tobacco
products in settings where they do not expose workers.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If worker freedom of choice was a valid argument to justify the
exposure of workers to tobacco smoke in bars, than OSHA could be
mostly eliminated. After all, if workers exposed to hazards
monitored or banned by OSHA don't want to work with those risks,
they can work elsewhere, as long as signs posted in the workplace
inform them of the risks. A "Big Brother" government
bureaucracy gone. </DIV>
<DIV>--------------------------</DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.cdc.gov/NCCDPHP/publications/aag/osh.htm"></A><A
href="http://www.cdc.gov/NCCDPHP/publications/aag/osh.htm">http://www.cdc.gov/NCCDPHP/publications/aag/osh.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV>
<H2>The Burden of Tobacco Use</H2>Tobacco use is the single most
preventable cause of disease, disability, and death in the United
States. Each year, an estimated 443,000 people die prematurely from
smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke, and another 8.6 million
have a serious illness caused by smoking. For every person who dies
from smoking, 20 more people suffer from at least one serious
tobacco-related illness. Despite these risks, approximately 43.4
million U.S. adults smoke cigarettes. Smokeless tobacco, cigars, and
pipes also have deadly consequences, including lung, larynx,
esophageal, and oral cancers.<BR>The harmful effects of smoking do
not end with the smoker. More than 126 million nonsmoking Americans,
including children and adults, are regularly exposed to secondhand
smoke. Even brief exposure can be dangerous because nonsmokers
inhale many of the same carcinogens and toxins in cigarette smoke as
smokers. Secondhand smoke exposure causes serious disease and death,
including heart disease and lung cancer in nonsmoking adults and
sudden infant death syndrome, acute respiratory infections, ear
problems, and more frequent and severe asthma attacks in children.
Each year, primarily because of exposure to secondhand smoke, an
estimated 3,000 nonsmoking Americans die of lung cancer, more than
46,000 (range: 22,700–69,600) die of heart disease, and about
150,000–300,000 children younger than 18 months have lower
respiratory tract infections.<BR>Coupled with this enormous health
toll is the significant economic burden of tobacco use—more than $96
billion per year in medical expenditures and another $97 billion per
year resulting from lost productivity.<BR>
<P align=center><A name=122aa783745cbaea_122a2ac98d684f08_1><IMG
height=457
alt="Chart showing about 443,000 U.S. deaths attributable each year to cigarette smoking. Text description below."
src="http://www.cdc.gov/NCCDPHP/publications/aag/images/2009/tobacco2.gif"
width=425 border=0></A></P>
<P align=center>[A <A
href="http://www.cdc.gov/NCCDPHP/publications/aag/osh_text.htm#1"><FONT
color=#003366>text description of this graph</FONT></A> is also
available.]</P>
<H2>The Tobacco Use Epidemic Can Be Stopped</H2>A 2007 Institute of
Medicine (IOM) report presented a blueprint for action to “reduce
smoking so substantially that it is no longer a public health
problem for our nation.” The two-pronged strategy for achieving this
goal includes not only strengthening and fully implementing
currently proven tobacco control measures, but also changing the
regulatory landscape to permit policy innovations. Foremost among
the IOM recommendations is that each state should fund a
comprehensive tobacco control program at the level recommended by
CDC in <I>Best Practices for Comprehensive Tobacco Control
Programs–2007</I>.<BR>Evidence-based, statewide tobacco control
programs that are comprehensive, sustained, and accountable have
been shown to reduce smoking rates, tobacco-related deaths, and
diseases caused by smoking. A comprehensive program is a coordinated
effort to establish smoke-free policies and social norms, to promote
and assist tobacco users to quit, and to prevent initiation of
tobacco use. This approach combines educational, clinical,
regulatory, economic, and social strategies.<BR>Research has
documented the effectiveness of laws and policies to protect the
public from secondhand smoke exposure, promote cessation, and
prevent initiation when they are applied in a comprehensive way. For
example, states can increase the unit price of tobacco products;
implement smoking bans through policies, regulations, and laws;
provide insurance coverage of tobacco use treatment; and limit
minors’ access to tobacco products.<BR>If the nation is to achieve
the objectives outlined in <I>Healthy People 2010</I>,
comprehensive, evidence-based approaches for preventing smoking
initiation and increasing cessation need to be fully
implemented.<BR>
<H1>CDC's Response</H1>CDC is the lead federal agency for tobacco
control. CDC’s Office on Smoking and Health (OSH) provides national
leadership for a comprehensive, broad-based approach to reducing
tobacco use. A variety of government agencies, professional and
voluntary organizations, and academic institutions have joined
together to advance this approach, which involves the following
activities:<BR>
<UL>
<LI>Preventing young people from starting to smoke.<BR>
<LI>Eliminating exposure to secondhand smoke.<BR>
<LI>Promoting quitting among young people and adults.<BR>
<LI>Identifying and eliminating tobacco-related health
disparities. </LI></UL>Essential elements of this approach include
state-based, community-based, and health system-based interventions;
cessation services; counter marketing; policy development and
implementation; surveillance; and evaluation. These activities
target groups who are at highest risk for tobacco-related health
problems.<BR>-------------------------------------------<BR>Vision2020
Post: Ted
Moffett<BR></DIV></SPAN></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></SPAN><BR>
<HR>
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