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<DIV><EM>Question: "Since the Ayotollah Lambert wants to extend the reach of this</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Ordinance to include private clubs, will the owners of these private</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Clubs, owners that paid lots and lots of their own hard-earned money to</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Purchase these private clubs, be restricted to those same snow banks?"</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV>Tom - do you not think anyone other than "private Clubs" did not put in any of their<STRONG> "hard-earned money"</STRONG> to purchase <STRONG>ANY</STRONG> club....."</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr id=IncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------</I></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=receivestrings>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" dir=ltr><I><B>From:</B></I> <A href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" dir=ltr><I><B>Date:</B></I> 6/24/2009 11:41:56 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" dir=ltr><I><B>To:</B></I> <A href="mailto:v2020@ssl.fastmail.fm">Saundra Lund</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" dir=ltr><I><B>Cc:</B></I> <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">'Moscow Vision 2020'</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" dir=ltr><I><B>Subject:</B></I> Re: [Vision2020] Draft Ordinance Banning Smoking in Bars</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Excellent and extremely thought-provoking, Saundra.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Saundra stated:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Oh, and to offer rebuttal, I certainly hope bar & tavern owners will take</DIV>
<DIV>a look at exactly where banishing smokers to more than 20 feet from the</DIV>
<DIV>door will put their customers."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>During the coldest of winter months, twenty feet from any door will place</DIV>
<DIV>these customers in the snow.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Question: Since the Ayotollah Lambert wants to extend the reach of this</DIV>
<DIV>ordinance to include private clubs, will the owners of these private</DIV>
<DIV>clubs, owners that paid lots and lots of their own hard-earned money to</DIV>
<DIV>purchase these private clubs, be restricted to those same snow banks?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Book 'em, Dano!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Side bar: If this ordinance should go into effect, I offer . . .</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>TEN DOLLARS to anybody that provides me a photograph of any member of our</DIV>
<DIV>city council or city staff violating the ordinance, FIFTEEN DOLLARS if it</DIV>
<DIV>is Bill Lambert.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Seeya round town, Moscow.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Tom Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>Moscow, Idaho</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>> Most striking to me was listening to the two council members become</DIV>
<DIV>> positively drunk with power! As suspected, they aren't happy with just</DIV>
<DIV>> banning smoking in bars, they also want to ban smoking in private clubs to</DIV>
<DIV>> provide a level playing field. <snort> Public events in public parks,</DIV>
<DIV>> and</DIV>
<DIV>> public parks, were mentioned, and Lambert actually said he'd like to see</DIV>
<DIV>> smoking banned everywhere but in private homes.</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> Of course, their interest in sticking their busy noses into private clubs</DIV>
<DIV>> to</DIV>
<DIV>> "level the playing field" makes the point no one on the that side of the</DIV>
<DIV>> issue wants to admit: that there are enough adults interested in engaging</DIV>
<DIV>> in LAWFUL adult activities (smoking & drinking) that they fear passing</DIV>
<DIV>> their</DIV>
<DIV>> ordinance *will* hurt local businesses. I doubt, though, either of them</DIV>
<DIV>> thought of that as their comments were stunningly uneducated and</DIV>
<DIV>> uninformed.</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> That concern also conflicts with Lambert's opinion (an opinion, BTW,</DIV>
<DIV>> that's</DIV>
<DIV>> been proven wrong with studies time & again) that passing this ordinance</DIV>
<DIV>> will *increase* business for bars. One thing I guess we can count on from</DIV>
<DIV>> them is inconsistency :-) Perhaps Lambert should have a chat with</DIV>
<DIV>> Pullman</DIV>
<DIV>> bar owners to find out the reality rather than trying to convince others</DIV>
<DIV>> of</DIV>
<DIV>> the validity of his wishful thinking. It seems that in Pullman, as in</DIV>
<DIV>> other</DIV>
<DIV>> locales where smoking bans in bars have been passed, those enticing</DIV>
<DIV>> promises</DIV>
<DIV>> from non-smokers never quite materialize to increase the business lost by</DIV>
<DIV>> excluding smokers.</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> Indeed, some studies identify bars and taverns as ***more than twice as</DIV>
<DIV>> likely*** to suffer adverse revenue effects from smoking bans than other</DIV>
<DIV>> venues. Interesting, isn't it, that factoid hasn't been disclosed in the</DIV>
<DIV>> current discussion? It's one thing to have an anti-smoking agenda, but</DIV>
<DIV>> it's</DIV>
<DIV>> a completely different thing to be dishonest about the realistic</DIV>
<DIV>> anticipated</DIV>
<DIV>> effects on our local businesses, IMHO. But, perhaps that's another part</DIV>
<DIV>> of</DIV>
<DIV>> the agenda??? One person during the Admin Committee meeting mentioned how</DIV>
<DIV>> well the ban has worked in Ireland -- I suspect the owners of the 400+</DIV>
<DIV>> small-town pubs that went belly-up following the ban might dispute his</DIV>
<DIV>> assessment.</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> So. What's next? What other lawful activities that offend their</DIV>
<DIV>> sensibilities will they want to legislate out of existence?</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> Let's see . . . obesity is either the #1 or #2 cause of premature death in</DIV>
<DIV>> the US depending on what study you read. Perhaps we should move next to</DIV>
<DIV>> make it illegal to sell or serve high calorie or high fat foods to those</DIV>
<DIV>> who</DIV>
<DIV>> are obese?</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> And, let's not forget that red meat consumption can cause/contribute to</DIV>
<DIV>> heart disease as well as hunger in this nation & around the world.</DIV>
<DIV>> Perhaps</DIV>
<DIV>> we should restrict consumption to private homes as well -- think of the</DIV>
<DIV>> health cost savings!</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> And, frankly, I think Lambert may be onto something, although not with</DIV>
<DIV>> respect to smoking but rather to alcohol. Due to the serious public</DIV>
<DIV>> safety</DIV>
<DIV>> & health risks of excess alcohol consumption, let's restrict consumption</DIV>
<DIV>> to</DIV>
<DIV>> private homes.</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> In any case, I find it incredibly disturbing that the Admin Committee is</DIV>
<DIV>> so</DIV>
<DIV>> gung-ho about this -- increasing Big Government restrictions on the</DIV>
<DIV>> hospitality industry. One might safely interpret their interest as either</DIV>
<DIV>> not trusting the market *or* wanting to force their social views on the</DIV>
<DIV>> rest</DIV>
<DIV>> of us to the detriment of local small business owners. But, I guess that</DIV>
<DIV>> shouldn't be surprising because that's certainly not the first time we've</DIV>
<DIV>> see this kind of thing from this particular council, is it?</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> The "second-hand smoke is bad for employees" red herring is particularly</DIV>
<DIV>> offensive given that they don't give a rip about making ***meaningful***</DIV>
<DIV>> changes (you know, inconveniences like living wages, health insurance,</DIV>
<DIV>> etc)</DIV>
<DIV>> for all local workers. When it comes to those significant issues, they</DIV>
<DIV>> are</DIV>
<DIV>> consistently unwilling to put their money where their mouths are . . . but</DIV>
<DIV>> I</DIV>
<DIV>> guess their interest in this smoking ban just goes to show that their</DIV>
<DIV>> concerns about the financial implications of laws they want is limited to</DIV>
<DIV>> only certain kinds of businesses -- they are quite willing jeopardize bar</DIV>
<DIV>> &</DIV>
<DIV>> tavern owners and retail businesses whole bending over backwards to</DIV>
<DIV>> accommodate other agendas.</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> I'm with you, Wayne -- even though I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm</DIV>
<DIV>> definitely going to remember the punch-drunk power comments that have been</DIV>
<DIV>> made thus far at the next election, and I'll continue to listen to the</DIV>
<DIV>> discussion for more red flags about the scary interest of some in the</DIV>
<DIV>> council to throw some of our local businesses & residents under the bus.</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> Oh, and to offer rebuttal, I certainly hope bar & tavern owners will take</DIV>
<DIV>> a</DIV>
<DIV>> look at exactly where banishing smokers to more than 20 feet from the door</DIV>
<DIV>> will put their customers. While 20 feet may work very well for some</DIV>
<DIV>> locations, I think it's going to be problematic for others. I'd like to</DIV>
<DIV>> see</DIV>
<DIV>> Lambert get off ***his*** "duff" to figure it out for all of us :-) I'd</DIV>
<DIV>> certainly be happy to donate a stick of chalk or some temporary paint to</DIV>
<DIV>> see</DIV>
<DIV>> him do the legwork :-)</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> And, for the Corner Club, that 20 feet had better NOT include the parking</DIV>
<DIV>> lot or alley . . . exiling law-abiding smokers to an area where they can</DIV>
<DIV>> --</DIV>
<DIV>> literally -- be killed with no consequences is highly irresponsible. In</DIV>
<DIV>> Memory of Kristian Nelson.</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> Saundra Lund</DIV>
<DIV>> Moscow, ID</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do</DIV>
<DIV>> nothing.</DIV>
<DIV>> ~ Edmund Burke</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through life</DIV>
<DIV>> plus</DIV>
<DIV>> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce</DIV>
<DIV>> outside</DIV>
<DIV>> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the</DIV>
<DIV>> author.*****</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> -----Original Message-----</DIV>
<DIV>> From: <A href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A> [<A href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A>]</DIV>
<DIV>> On Behalf Of <A href="mailto:bear@moscow.com">bear@moscow.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:47 PM</DIV>
<DIV>> To: Tom Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020</DIV>
<DIV>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Draft Ordinance Banning Smoking in Bars</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> Well Tom, it looks like John Weber (or I should say, uh, his opposition)</DIV>
<DIV>> has a great slogan for his campaign as mayor: " Time Out, time out, time</DIV>
<DIV>> out, we can't have a debate" ! He'll make a great mayor!</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>> --------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>>> Greetings Visionaires -</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> As promised, here it is . . .</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> The Administrative Commitee meeting of June 22, 2009 concerning a draft</DIV>
<DIV>>> ordinance banning smoking in bars..</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> <A href="http://www.MoscowCares.com/062209_Admin_PropOrdSmokeBan.htm">http://www.MoscowCares.com/062209_Admin_PropOrdSmokeBan.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> For those of you that are simply too eager to know the outcome of this</DIV>
<DIV>>> agenda item . . . no recommendation has been prepared by this committee.</DIV>
<DIV>>> You (are you listening, Bear?) will be provided another opportunity to</DIV>
<DIV>>> voice your pleasure (or lack thereof) concerning this proposed ordinance</DIV>
<DIV>>> at the Administrative Committee's meeting on July 13, 2009.</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> As mentioned earlier, count the utterings, mutterings, and mumbles of</DIV>
<DIV>>> the</DIV>
<DIV>>> word "uh" originating from John Weber, Administrative Committee Chair</DIV>
<DIV>>> and</DIV>
<DIV>>> candidate for Mayor of Moscow.</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> Tom Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>>> Moscow, Idaho</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to</DIV>
<DIV>>> change</DIV>
<DIV>>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> - Unknown</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>>> =======================================================</DIV>
<DIV>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,</DIV>
<DIV>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</DIV>
<DIV>>> <A href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A></DIV>
<DIV>>> <A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>>> =======================================================</DIV>
<DIV>>></DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> =======================================================</DIV>
<DIV>> List services made available by First Step Internet,</DIV>
<DIV>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</DIV>
<DIV>> <A href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A></DIV>
<DIV>> <A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>> =======================================================</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change</DIV>
<DIV>and the Realist adjusts his sails."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Unknown</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>=======================================================</DIV>
<DIV> List services made available by First Step Internet,</DIV>
<DIV> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</DIV>
<DIV> <A href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> <A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>=======================================================</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></TD></TR>
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