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Joe's apology wasn't offered to me, but he did mention me in his post below, so I do want to just add my comment. What I wrote to Joe about saying that "everybody" who disagrees with him is, in his mind, "a slavery defender or Holocaust denier," was a bit of hyperbole intended to suggest that he was lashing out with labels that don't apply to the people who received them. <br><br>Joe didn't take well to my private suggestion or my on-line post, but he did mention me, so I want to clear up one thing.<br><br>I'm sure he understands that I wasn't suggesting that he really believes, always, that every single person who ever disagrees with him on any point is automatically, in his mind, always a Wilson supporter or, in every case, an ally of Holocaust deniers, or simply bad, bad, bad. (See the hyperbole?) I was aware that a decent guy would seem unreasonable to his critics by writing in a way that didn't reveal his true character, and also aware that many of us were pained to see him lash out as he did -- for which he has graciously apologized. I just want to make sure that no one misunderstands what I said to him.<br><br>For the record, I think there's very little doubt in anyone's mind how
I feel about Wilson, Christ Church, hate groups, racism, bigotry, or
anything else. Like Joe, I could not live with myself if I
countenanced bigotry -- particularly, in my case, bigotry in the name
of Christ. I've immersed myself over the last seven years in attempting to understand and critique all of the above, and, like Joe, I sometimes regret the way I've put something. Because of that, I commend him for his apology here.<br><br>Keely<br>http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/<br><br><br><br><br>> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:12:45 -0700<br>> From: philosopher.joe@gmail.com<br>> To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> Subject: [Vision2020] Apology, bias, and the holocaust<br>> <br>> I received a number of off-list emails suggesting that I went too far<br>> today, which I suppose is correct. For most of the time I was being<br>> playful and that was careless on my part, given the serious nature of<br>> the topic.<br>> <br>> I'm especially sorry to Dan and Paul for making it seem as if they<br>> support holocaust deniers, etc. They do not. I'm sure in their views<br>> on these subjects are complex, more complex than can be explained in<br>> short responses to my questions.<br>> <br>> Note I never SAID they supported holocaust deniers, nor did I ever<br>> believe it. I merely asked some questions. Nor were they loaded<br>> questions. A loaded question would have been: Do you STILL support<br>> holocaust deniers? Mine was just the "Do you" part, which I thought<br>> would be easy enough to answer. My answer is: "No, I don't support<br>> holocaust deniers (or slavery revisionists)." (Thanks to Gary Crabtree<br>> for (sort of) giving this same answer!)<br>> <br>> Which brings me to the point I was trying to make in the beginning,<br>> which is that we've become complacent in our acceptance of radical<br>> right wing viewpoints. Some of this is for political advantage, e.g.,<br>> conservative candidates afraid to say anything for fear of losing<br>> votes. (Again, I'm sorry for implicating Dan in this since, as I said,<br>> I think his views are more complex and not of this nature.) Some of<br>> this is due to an incorrect view about objectivity: that being<br>> objective requires you to see both sides of everything. Well, not<br>> everything has two sides. The other side of "Denying the holocaust is<br>> wrong" is not a defensible position, IMO. Call me arrogant but I've<br>> seen the Sorrow and the Pity.<br>> <br>> According to Keely, I think that "everyone who disagrees with [me] on<br>> this point is either a slavery defender, locked into or indebted to<br>> the Wilson camp, or simply just bad." I don't even think that Crabtree<br>> is a slavery defender. He has defended slavery defenders, which is bad<br>> enough in my book, but I have said time and time again that I don't<br>> think he is racist. And he is the only one that I think is in the<br>> Wilson camp. I'm simply astonished at how unwilling even moderate<br>> conservatives are when it comes to criticizing the good pastor, or<br>> criticizing crazed right wing viewpoints. I have no such<br>> unwillingness. In fact, I feel an obligation to be critical.<br>> <br>> I grew up in a town in NJ with about the population of Moscow spread<br>> out over one square mile; 40% of folks are Jewish. When I was in high<br>> school you could walk into almost any deli on almost any day and find<br>> someone with a number tattooed on his or her arm indicating time spent<br>> in a Nazi concentration camp. Many of my best friends had grandparents<br>> with such tattoos, though all of them are now dead.<br>> <br>> I still visit about 2-3 times a year and often I get to talk with my<br>> friends' parents since I still stay in touch with many of them. (Five<br>> of my friends flew out last December for my 50th birthday party, for<br>> instance.) When I tell my friends about Wilson et. al. and their<br>> criticisms of gays and Muslims along with their slavery revisionism,<br>> they remind me that this is how it started in Germany. It starts with<br>> minorities, because no one but them will complain, and then it builds<br>> from there. There was a saying I grew up with: Never forget. History<br>> has a way of repeating itself and if one is not careful, if one<br>> forgets, it becomes all the more possible.<br>> <br>> I have to look my friends' parents in their eyes when I see them 2-3<br>> times a year and I could not in clear conscience do so without knowing<br>> that I did my best to speak out against hate speech. I know that<br>> people think that speech and beliefs are innocuous but I respectfully<br>> disagree (more on this in another post).<br>> <br>> The fact is that there are reports from numerous sources about an<br>> increase in hate crimes, especially since the last election. My<br>> earlier posts on this topic mostly contained questions: Is there a<br>> connection between a rise in violence and conservative tolerance for<br>> divisive speech? Later I became more aggressive but at no point did I<br>> BLAME conservatives for the recent murders inspired by right wing<br>> extremists. Clearly the blame lies with the murderers. My point is<br>> more subtle.<br>> <br>> We just finished an 8-year stretch in which hate politics was used to<br>> get an idiot elected president for two successive terms. Just think<br>> about that for a moment. He wrecked the economy, started two endless<br>> wars, and made a joke of our constitutional rights -- to name just a<br>> few things. But the worst of all of it was the way he won the<br>> elections, since it was built on hate, pure and simple. Many key<br>> states -- as well as politically irrelevant states like Idaho -- came<br>> out in huge numbers to vote against gay marriage. He stirred up<br>> hatred of Muslims to support the war as well as hatred of foreigners<br>> to support his draconian immigration policy. And, I think, we are<br>> still suffering from the consequences of that election strategy.<br>> <br>> Today I saw a documentary on Information Discovery about the rise of<br>> hate groups in American. And guess what? The strategy for recruitment<br>> in such groups is much the same as Bush's election strategy: use hate<br>> to build interest. And I think it is undeniable that these groups are<br>> growing in numbers. (A friend mailed me something on this that I'll<br>> post should any of you be in doubt.)<br>> <br>> Does this make us blameworthy, or conservatives blameworthy, for the<br>> recent murders? Of course not. But that is not the issue. The issue is<br>> that each of us is part of the world and what happens in that world is<br>> due in some part to our actions. We can speak out against hate speech<br>> or not and whether we do or not will have some influence on our<br>> future. In less than 50 years, whites in the US will be a minority in<br>> this country. So respect for minority viewpoints is only a matter of<br>> time.<br>> Either we all learn to respect each other's differences -- which<br>> includes, in my book, speaking out against hate speech whenever the<br>> opportunity arises -- or our children and children's children will<br>> suffer the consequences. It doesn't matter if anyone blames us for it.<br>> What matters is that we can do something about it now.<br>> <br>> Joe Campbell<br>> <br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> http://www.fsr.net <br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> =======================================================<br><br /><hr />Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. <a href='http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009' target='_new'>Check it out.</a></body>
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