<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">The obvious problem here is that Roger is (as far as I'm aware) not Doug Wilson. Thus, it doesn't matter what Doug says about slavery and the Bible, it matters what Roger says about it.<br><br>In my opinion, he *should* be upset that you think he supports slavery and denies the holocaust.<br><br>Not all of those on the "right" believe exactly the same things.<br><br>Paul<br><br>--- On <b>Fri, 6/12/09, Joe Campbell <i><philosopher.joe@gmail.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe@gmail.com><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: CNN - Holocaust museum shooting suspect to be charged with murder<br>To: "lfalen" <lfalen@turbonet.com><br>Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><br>Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:07
PM<br><br><div class="plainMail">Did you not know that Doug Wilson has written a book about the history <br>of US slavery, claiming it is biblically justified and that the era <br>marked the night of race relations in the US?<br><br>I stand by my privious cooments. For eight years Bush and company <br>worked to gain support from the radical right. Once you go to the <br>trouble of denying evolution theory and global warming there is no <br>basis for not continuing on and denying the holocaust and thevtrue <br>history of US slavery.<br><br>Unless you can tell me what the difference is, I am not out of bounds. <br>Better: if I am out of bounds, you should be able to show me why in am <br>open forum like this.<br><br>Joe Campbell<br><br>On Jun 12, 2009, at 11:06 AM, lfalen <<a ymailto="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" href="/mc/compose?to=lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>>
Joe<br>> You are a way out of bounds here. I said that the Nazis were <br>> socialists.That is a fact. I do not know where you get such Ideas as <br>> denying the holocaust and justifying slavery. I do not do either. <br>> What Hitler did was horrible and so was slavery. I think that <br>> evolution is a fact and that climate change debate is unsettled. <br>> There have been three murders resently. The killer of the abortion <br>> doctor you could legitimately call a right wing nut. He committed <br>> premeditated murder and should pay the maximum penalty proscribed by <br>> law. The killer of the recruiters was a moslem fanatic, The one at <br>> the holocaust muslim was a white supremely and Nazi sympathizer. He <br>> is not part of even the fringe right. If he is to be affiliated with <br>> either the left or the right, he is closer
to the left. I do not <br>> think that you can establish any kind of sa trend here.<br>> Roger<br>> -----Original message-----<br>> From: Joe Campbell <a ymailto="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" href="/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:53:33 -0700<br>> To: lfalen <a ymailto="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" href="/mc/compose?to=lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</a><br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: CNN - Holocaust museum shooting <br>> suspect to be charged with murder<br>><br>>> Give me a break, Roger. You throw out terms like 'socialism' all the<br>>> time in your attempt to shift the center so much to the right that<br>>> denial of evolution theory and climate change and the justification <br>>> of<br>>> slavery have become 'mainstream' views. On what grounds can you<br>>> suggest that the denial
of the holocaust is off bounds? None given<br>>> your standards of evidence and argument.<br>>><br>>> And this is the second political murder by the radical right in week.<br>>> Is this a trend?<br>>><br>>> Joe Campbell<br>>><br>>> On Jun 11, 2009, at 10:50 AM, lfalen <<a ymailto="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" href="/mc/compose?to=lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>>> Joe<br>>>> Don't try to shove your nut cases off on to the right, we have a<br>>>> enough of our own. The Nazis were National Socialist. Hitler got his<br>>>> ideas about Eugenics from the the american left wing ideologues of<br>>>> the 1920s. One of those was Margaret Sanger.<br>>>> Roger<br>>>> -----Original message-----<br>>>> From: Joe Campbell <a ymailto="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"
href="/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>>>> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:24:54 -0700<br>>>> To: Moscow Vision 2020 <a ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" href="/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Fwd: CNN - Holocaust museum shooting suspect<br>>>> to be charged with murder<br>>>><br>>>>> Is right wing American terrorism on the rise?<br>>>>><br>>>>> Joe<br>>>>><br>>>>>>> Holocaust museum shooting suspect to be charged with murder<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> The suspected gunman in the fatal shooting of a security guard at<br>>>>>>> the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum will be charged with murder,<br>>>>>>> authorities announced
Thursday.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> James von Brunn, an 88-year-old white supremacist known for <br>>>>>>> racist<br>>>>>>> and anti-Semitic writings, also will face charges of possession <br>>>>>>> of<br>>>>>>> a firearm at a federal facility, said Chief Cathy Lanier of the<br>>>>>>> District of Columbia's Metropolitan Police Department.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Lanier said Officer Stephen Tyrone Johns was trying to help the <br>>>>>>> man<br>>>>>>> arriving at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum around 12:40 p.m.<br>>>>>>> Wednesday by opening the door for him. The man then raised a <br>>>>>>> rifle<br>>>>>>> and killed him.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> The U.S.
Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington remained closed<br>>>>>>> Thursday, its flags lowered to half-staff in tribute to Johns.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Officials said after von Brunn entered the crowded and solemn<br>>>>>>> Holocaust museum and shot Johns, guards returned fire and wounded<br>>>>>>> him. Von Brunn is in the hospital in critical condition, <br>>>>>>> officials<br>>>>>>> said.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Sirens blared as emergency vehicles converged on the area, <br>>>>>>> which is<br>>>>>>> near the Washington Monument and other popular tourist <br>>>>>>> attractions.<br>>>>>>> The museum was full at the time, with a "couple of thousand" <br>>>>>>>
people<br>>>>>>> inside, said William Parsons, chief of staff at the museum.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> A six-year veteran of the museum's security staff, Johns "died<br>>>>>>> heroically in the line of duty," said Sara Bloomfield, director <br>>>>>>> of<br>>>>>>> the museum.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> "Our thoughts and prayers go out to Officer Johns' family," the<br>>>>>>> museum said.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Von Brunn is a Holocaust denier, well-known to human rights <br>>>>>>> groups<br>>>>>>> for decades, who created an anti-Semitic Web site called "The <br>>>>>>> Holy<br>>>>>>> Western Empire." The Southern Poverty Law Center, which focuses <br>>>>>>>
on<br>>>>>>> human rights, said von Brunn has "an extremely long history with<br>>>>>>> neo-Nazis and white supremacists."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> He has repeatedly claimed "The Diary of Anne Frank," an iconic<br>>>>>>> diary written by a teenage girl who was hiding from Nazis with <br>>>>>>> her<br>>>>>>> family, was a hoax. The guard died on the day the museum was to<br>>>>>>> stage a play based on Anne Frank and two days before what would<br>>>>>>> have been her 80th birthday.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Investigators found a notebook in the suspect's car listing other<br>>>>>>> locations in Washington that he might have considered as <br>>>>>>> targets, a<br>>>>>>> federal official told
CNN.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Von Brunn served six years in prison for trying in 1981 to kidnap<br>>>>>>> Federal Reserve Board members because of high interest rates. He<br>>>>>>> blamed his prison term on a "Negro jury, Jew/Negro attorneys" and<br>>>>>>> "a Jew judge," he said on his Web site, "Holy Western Empire."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> One of many questions is whether von Brunn, as a convicted felon,<br>>>>>>> should have turned in his weapons or been barred from owning <br>>>>>>> them.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> The U.S. Park Police has asked the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,<br>>>>>>> Firearms and Explosives to trace the firearm, an effort that is<br>>>>>>> expected to provide its original sale and
ownership.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> An FBI official said there was no warning or threat against the<br>>>>>>> museum.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Both Johns and von Brunn were taken to George Washington <br>>>>>>> University<br>>>>>>> Hospital, said D.C. Mayor Adrian Fenty. Johns died at the <br>>>>>>> hospital.<br>>>>>>> Von Brunn was in critical condition, Fenty said.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Johns, 39, was a resident of Temple Hills, Maryland, according <br>>>>>>> to a<br>>>>>>> statement issued by Wackenhut Services Inc., which has provided<br>>>>>>> security services at the museum since 2002.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> "Obviously there are no words to express our grief and
shock over<br>>>>>>> the horrific event that took place at this museum today,"<br>>>>>>> Bloomfield, the museum director, said.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups, said <br>>>>>>> von<br>>>>>>> Brunn has "an extremely long history with neo-Nazis and white<br>>>>>>> supremacists."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Witnesses to the shooting described blood on the floor and chaos<br>>>>>>> within the museum's halls.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Visitor Maria Hernandez told CNN she heard five shots and saw the<br>>>>>>> wounded security guard.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> "It was definitely a security guard; he was down bleeding on the<br>>>>>>> floor," said
Hernandez, 19. "He was face down. His back ... blood<br>>>>>>> was coming out."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Sirens blared as emergency vehicles converged on the area, <br>>>>>>> which is<br>>>>>>> near the Washington Monument and other popular tourist <br>>>>>>> attractions.<br>>>>>>> The museum was full at the time, with a "couple of thousand" <br>>>>>>> people<br>>>>>>> inside, said William Parsons, chief of staff at the museum.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> "Never take your guard force and security people for granted," he<br>>>>>>> said. "They did exactly what they were supposed to do to protect<br>>>>>>> people in the museum."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Dave Pearson, a sixth-grade teacher in
the Washington area, <br>>>>>>> said he<br>>>>>>> was on the museum's fourth floor when he heard a loud noise.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> "At the time, we're visiting and all of a sudden there's like a<br>>>>>>> boom, and all of a sudden they told us to stop where we're at," <br>>>>>>> he<br>>>>>>> told CNN. "Only thing we heard was a boom, and that was it."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> The shooting sent shock waves throughout the nation's capital and<br>>>>>>> elsewhere.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> "I am shocked and saddened by today's shooting at the U.S.<br>>>>>>> Holocaust Memorial Museum," said President Obama, who just days<br>>>>>>> earlier had spoken emotionally about the Holocaust when he
<br>>>>>>> visited<br>>>>>>> Buchenwald, a former Nazi concentration camp with Holocaust<br>>>>>>> survivor and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Elie Wiesel.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> "This outrageous act reminds us that we must remain vigilant<br>>>>>>> against anti-Semitism and prejudice in all its forms," Obama said<br>>>>>>> Wednesday. "No American institution is more important to this<br>>>>>>> effort than the Holocaust museum, and no act of violence will<br>>>>>>> diminish our determination to honor those who were lost by <br>>>>>>> building<br>>>>>>> a more peaceful and tolerant world."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Israel issued a statement through its embassy, expressing sadness<br>>>>>>> and condemning the
attack.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> The Anti-Defamation League said the shooting "reminds us in the<br>>>>>>> starkest way where the spread of hatred can lead."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Happening "at the very place that was created to remember and <br>>>>>>> teach<br>>>>>>> about evil in the world," the attack "is an immediate reminder <br>>>>>>> that<br>>>>>>> words of hate matter, that we can never afford to ignore hate<br>>>>>>> because words of hate can easily become acts of hate, no matter <br>>>>>>> the<br>>>>>>> place, no matter the age of the hatemonger."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> The Council on American-Islamic Relations condemned "this <br>>>>>>>
apparent<br>>>>>>> bias-motivated attack" and said it stands "with the Jewish<br>>>>>>> community and with Americans of all faiths in repudiating the <br>>>>>>> kind<br>>>>>>> of hatred and intolerance that can lead to such disturbing<br>>>>>>> incidents."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> The museum canceled a performance scheduled for Wednesday night <br>>>>>>> of<br>>>>>>> a play about racism and anti-Semitism, based on a fictional <br>>>>>>> meeting<br>>>>>>> between Anne Frank and Emmett Till, the teenage victim of a <br>>>>>>> racist<br>>>>>>> killing in the United States.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Attorney General Eric Holder and Rep. Steve Cohen,
D-Tennessee,<br>>>>>>> were among those planning to attend the play, which was written <br>>>>>>> by<br>>>>>>> Janet Langhart Cohen, the wife of former Defense Secretary and <br>>>>>>> U.S.<br>>>>>>> Sen. William Cohen.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Langhart Cohen told CNN that Anne Frank's young life was ended by<br>>>>>>> people filled with hate. She said it was hard to see that same <br>>>>>>> hate<br>>>>>>> manifest itself at this place of remembrance.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>
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