<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family:Verdana
}
</style>
</head>
<body class='hmmessage'>
<BR>Thanks Ted, this is an interesting case you cite. All I could add from what I've seen is that a dog's alert to his owner is very precise. They are usually frantic and tearing at all parts of the vehicle or building because they are excited to do their job and earn their reward. Once they've come across a positive scent they immediately sit and look their trainer directly in the eyes until acknowledged. I don't know their failure rate but could guess it's low from studies I've seen regarding success rates at identifying even invisible skin cancer cells from healthy ones. I also don't know how often they might hit on a previous but empty hiding spot. Apparently 90% of the cash in your wallet contains cocaine residue from passing through drive-thru markets in metro areas. Would that cause a positive alert?<BR>
<BR>
The issue of an officer using his own sense of smell in determining probable cause to take a search further has led to dismissal of cases due to the subjective nature of ones' interpretation of what exactly they are smelling. This led to state mandated courses that they can swear in court as having passed and proven their ability to distinguish certain drugs from say...previous or continuing personal experience or a neighboring skunk, cat piss or Clorox factory.<BR>
<BR>
Seems that refusing a search, when other probable cause has already been determined is just another case for probable cause. Just exibiting excessively nervous signs, as most folks who aren't regulary in contact with the police usually are, is used as probable cause all the time. Ever hear the question "Any guns, knives, hand grenades, bodies or nukes in the car?" When a person quickly answers a serious "No Sir!" vs. a slight chuckle or "Huh? Really?" as a person with nothing to hide would probably reply, it's a red flag that an officer may want to just ask if they might search.<BR>
<BR>
On the issue of gays in the military...I'd think they have as much right to fight and die for all of our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, in spite of their own infringements back home, just as African-Americans did since the civil war.<BR>
<BR>
Much to think about, thanks Viz'z! <BR>
<BR>
Don<BR>
<BR>
<BR>> Message: 3<BR>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 20:26:33 -0700<BR>> From: Ted Moffett <starbliss@gmail.com><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And From Moscow We Have . . .<BR>> To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com><BR>> Cc: donald edwards <donaledwards@hotmail.com>, Moscow Vision 2020<BR>> <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> Message-ID:<BR>> <d03f69e0905212026o7e5be637j8374ffc5205ba56e@mail.gmail.com><BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>> <BR>> Police can "search" a vehicle in a traffic stop just for speeding, according<BR>> to the legal information below, regarding a case in Illinois, that went to<BR>> the US Supreme Court. They are legally allowed, thanks to the US Supreme<BR>> Court's sell out of the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution, to assemble<BR>> the drug dogs with minimal suspicion, etc. As if your phrases uttered to the<BR>> police have legal force to stop a search? And who decides what exactly<BR>> defines whether or not a drug dog "alerts" to the smell of drugs? Officer<BR>> discretion? You can announce you do "not consent to a search" all you<BR>> want. They have the legal right to "search" your vehicle regardless, with<BR>> minimal pretext, given the current state of law regarding the boundaries of<BR>> the protections provided by the eroded state of the Fourth Amendment<BR>> protections against unreasonable search and seizure:<BR>> <BR>> http://www.jmls.edu/facultypubs/oneill/oneill_column_1208.shtml<BR>> <BR>> In 2003, the Illinois Supreme Court examined the use of drug-sniffing dogs<BR>> in *People v. Caballes, *207 Ill.2d 504 (2003) (''*Caballes I*''). There the<BR>> state police, without any reasonable suspicion that drugs were present, used<BR>> a drug-sniffing dog during a traffic stop for speeding. The dog alerted and<BR>> drugs were found in the car. The Illinois Supreme Court suppressed the<BR>> drugs. It began its analysis by conceding that the dog sniff itself was not<BR>> a ''search'' under the Fourth Amendment. But the ''scope'' of a traffic stop<BR>> must be restricted by both the ''duration'' and the ''manner'' of the stop.<BR>> The court conceded that the dog sniff did not improperly increase the<BR>> ''duration'' of the stop. But the problem was the ''manner'' of the stop:<BR>> the police could provide absolutely no reason why they shifted their<BR>> interest from the speeding charge to whether the car contained drugs.<BR>> Therefore, the use of the dog meant that the police activity impermissibly<BR>> changed the ''manner'' of the stop from a focus on speeding to a focus on<BR>> drugs. Because the police thus improperly expanded the ''scope'' of the<BR>> stop, the court suppressed the drugs.<BR>> <BR>> The U.S. Supreme Court reversed. *Illinois v. Caballes, *543 U.S. 405<BR>> (2005). First, the court held that in considering the proper scope of the<BR>> stop ''manner'' was irrelevant; the only relevant consideration was<BR>> ''duration.'' Since the dog sniff was not a search and it did not improperly<BR>> extend the ''duration'' of the stop, it was proper.<BR>> <BR>> On remand, the Illinois Supreme Court simply acquiesced in the U.S. Supreme<BR>> Court's decision and held for the prosecution. *People v. Caballes, *221<BR>> Ill.2d 282 (2006) (''* Caballes II*'').<BR>> <BR>> ------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On 5/20/09, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> > Yet another good reason why you should never talk to the police.<BR>> > Remember the phrases "I do not consent to a search" and "Am I free to go?"<BR>> ><BR>> > Paul<BR>> ><BR>> > --- On *Wed, 5/20/09, Warren Hayman <whayman@roadrunner.com>* wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > From: Warren Hayman <whayman@roadrunner.com><BR>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And From Moscow We Have . . .<BR>> > To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com>, "donald edwards" <<BR>> > donaledwards@hotmail.com><BR>> > Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> > Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 10:55 AM<BR>> ><BR>> > Not long ago someone told me that he has hated police ever since he was<BR>> > pulled over a few years ago. When asked if he had been drinking, he said<BR>> > no,<BR>> > that he smoked a joint about an hour before. He was astonished and<BR>> > infuriated when arrested.<BR>> ><BR>> > Warren Hayman<BR>> ><BR>> > ----- Original Message -----<BR>> > From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com<http://mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com><BR>> > ><BR>> > To: "donald edwards" <donaledwards@hotmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=donaledwards@hotmail.com><BR>> > ><BR>> > Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com<http://mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> > ><BR>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:41 AM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And From Moscow We Have . . .<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > > Although my intent was humor (as the 24-year-old man approached a police<BR>> > > officer), seriousness should be given to the potential plight of a dealer<BR>> > > who "laces" his/her stash of cannabis with "substances unknown" for the<BR>> > > purpose of realizing more sales in these troubled economic times.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > As Don suggests, the best way to control something is to legalize and<BR>> > > regulate it.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Thanks, Don.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Tom Hansen<BR>> > > Moscow, Idaho<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > >><BR>> > >><BR>> > >> Hi Tom, this is a glaring example of the need for legal govt. controlled<BR>> > >> marijuana available through the corner smokeshop. Could have been<BR>> > >> formaldahyde or PCP? Same things happened from drinking bathtub Gin.<BR>> > No<BR>> > >> quality control and billions in lost tax revenue.<BR>> > >><BR>> > >><BR>> > >><BR>> > >>>From MSN Money's highest rated & Editor's choice archives. "In the<BR>> > early<BR>> > >>> 1930s, one of the reasons that alcohol was brought back was because<BR>> > >>> government revenue was plummeting," Harvard economist Jeff Miron said.<BR>> > >>> "There are some parallels to that now."<BR>> > >><BR>> > >><BR>> > >><BR>> > >><BR>> > http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/StockInvestingTrading/a-budget-cure-marijuana-taxes.aspx<BR>> > >><BR>> > >><BR>> > >><BR>> > >> Not quite as bad as trusting a paranoid junkie with no chemistry degree<BR>> > >> to<BR>> > >> cook your Meth for you though. They have a one in three chance of not<BR>> > >> making either poison (in the literal sence) or a trailer bomb.<BR>> > >><BR>> > >><BR>> > >><BR>> > >> Don<BR>> > >><BR>> > ><BR>> > > =======================================================<BR>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<http://mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> > > =======================================================<BR>> ><BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<http://mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> ><BR>> -------------- next part --------------<BR>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>> URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20090521/bc8accf1/attachment.html <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> http://www.fsr.net <BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> =======================================================<BR>> <BR>> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 35, Issue 92<BR>> ******************************************<BR><BR><br /><hr />Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. <a href='http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009' target='_new'>Check it out.</a></body>
</html>